14 year old needs to learn how to shoot

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CZRyan

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My 14-year-old son wants to become a Marine sniper. I have mixed feelings about being a sniper, but I don’t have a problem about him learning to shoot accurately. But that’s the rub, I’m mostly a pistol type of guy and don’t shoot rifles much. When I do shoot a rifle it’s for cowboy or I am shooting from a bench. I do have a few rifles (mostly inherited) a Winchester 64 (.22LR), Remington Model 34 (.22LR), a M1 carbine (Alpine), a Winchester 94(30-30) and a Marlin 1894(.357). My son likes the M1 mostly because it is military (copy) and he can shoot it fast. It is a lot of fun to shoot but only shoots about a 5-7” group a 100 yards!
I don’t feel that I am the right person to teach him the finer points of becoming a rifleman and I am thinking that a better (newer) rifle that is more accurate than the above mentioned guns (so you can’t blame the gun for inaccuracy). I am thinking along the lines of a .22LR with a decent trigger and probably peep sights and not too expensive. Do you have any suggestions of recommendations? Any ideas would be welcome.

Oh, BTW we live just outside of Los Angeles, Calif.

Thanks, CZRyan
 
I'm not a sniper, but if he wants to learn basic rifle marksmanship then joining a NRA High Power club makes sense. He will have a chance to learn the basics including the positions, shooting from a sling, etc. There are two clubs that shoot reduced course 100yd matches at LARC just north of LA, and a couple clubs east of LA/Orange. The California Golden Bears have M1 and carbine matches a couple times a year. They have been talking about rimfire matches too. I think the model 34 in NRA match condition had sights. Most of the high power teenagers shoot the AR but thats not an option for you. The club helped a couple new shooters set up 223 bolt guns, that seems to be best option for you. Good luck!
 
For a .22 I like the Remington 504, it's based on the Remington 700 which is the platform of the USMC M40 rifle.

If it's gonna be a centerfire then get the kid a Model 700, in .308. Hard to beat the same basic rifle (as the M40) in the same caliber for practice. .223 would be my second choice because of the affordability of ammo.

Then top it off with a Leupold variable scope of some sort and call it a day. Or if you're feeling flush a real deal Unertl!

Of course FM 23-10 is required reading.
 
Lucky you

First off, you are right, you are not the guy to teach him and that is fine. Go to your local clubs and find one with a Junior Shooting progam. He will be taught the basics and they may supply the rifles. Next, start thinking about an accurate rifle in 223 for Christmas. I suggest a heavy barreled Savage because most all of them will shoot under 1/2" with no work to them. You might want to get the plastic stocked one and then a better stock, like the Duramaxx, for it later. They will generaly shoot almost as well as their more expensive laminated counterparts. All five of my Savage BVSS's will shoot at or under the 1/2" mark at 100 meters. Don't worry that it is not the same rifle as the Military model, right now he just needs something that is accurate so that he knows when he is doing his part and when he isn't. I suggest the 223 for several reasons. The first reason is that is accurate. Second, it is mild to shoot. Third, it is inexpensive to buy or reload for. The other good reason for this cobination is that should you ever have the want to go Varmint hunting you are all set. Whatever you decide to do have fun with him. I too shoot Cowboy Action and my 14 year old daughter has been shooting with me since she was 9. If she shoots well, and she usually does, I don't care if I don't.:)
 
The forums at snipershide.com are a great resource to find answers to just about any question you or your son can think of. There are at least a few actual scout snipers who post there.

In fact, there was a thread started over there recently by a teenager in a similar situation as your son. Getting started in high power was a pretty universal recommendation.
 
Teaching someone to shoot is a great thing.

I think that your comment about not being the one to teach him is a little off base. A 14 year old boy needs his father's support, and this is a great oppertunity to spend time with your son. Even though you may not have the technical skills to teach the science and art of long range shooting, and it is both a science and art, you can still play a great roll in him honing his skills.

As to gun and caliber, depending on your price range, there are a lot of choices. I think that .223 is a great choice because of its inherent acuracy, avaibility, diverse loadings and number of guns chambered in .223. When he gets older and his skills are improved, then I'd go with the .308.
As far as guns, the heavy barreled savage with the accu-trigger is a good rifle. My friend in the Marines loves his in .308. You could step it up to a Remi 700, or when he is really good, a sako TRG. I had the oppertunity to shoot one about 2 years ago and let me tell you... it's the mos comfortable rifle I have ever shot. I was hitting 9" steel plates at 400 yards like it was nothing. It was the rifle, not me.. trust me on that one.
 
My son shoots in an NRA Junior Program at our local club. He uses a club supplied .22 single shot with competition peep sights and club supplied ammo. Our club is a members-only club, but the public is invited to particiapate in the junior program. He is getting proper instruction in position shooting that I am not qualified to provide. I urge you to find an affiliated program in your area. Then, get a good, scoped bolt action .22 and take him squirrel hunting (if legal in your area). My son hunts big game now, but slipping around in the woods taking squirrels from field positions remains a true challenge and a skill builder.
 
My son likes the M1 mostly because it is military (copy) and he can shoot it fast
Click to expand...

Shooting fast will be the worst thing he can start doing...accurate fire is way more important than volume (unless you're just trying to keep their heads down.

As said above,

- Get him a good .22 LR
- Get him in an NRA Basic Rifle course
- Get him in NRA Smallbore or High Power competition

Also wouldn't be a bad idea to buy him Jeff Cooper's "Art of the Rifle" or one of David Tubb's "Hipower Rifle" series
 
I would say get him a good .223 bolt gun...

and put a good scope on it. Then let him shoot the heck out of it and have fun. You might want to check out the Angeles shooting Range off of the 118 fwy. They have lots of steel target to shoot at starting at 200 yards going out to about 1,000. There are lots of folks up there who shoot rifles and would be happy to help him out.

The Golden Bears shoot up there as well and might be a good resource.

Hope this helps you out.

Matt
 
I don’t feel that I am the right person to teach him the finer points of becoming a rifleman and I am thinking that a better (newer) rifle that is more accurate than the above mentioned guns (so you can’t blame the gun for inaccuracy). I am thinking along the lines of a .22LR with a decent trigger and probably peep sights and not too expensive. Do you have any suggestions of recommendations? Any ideas would be welcome
Click to expand...

Newer isn't necessarily better. Many old military rifles will shoot very well, and often cost less. I was recently in a pawn shop and could have walked out with a sporterized M1903A3 w/ 3-9 scope (don't recall the mfr) for $210. As I already have a half-dozen '06's and have no interest in sporterized 03's, I passed. But this is just one example of what's out there.

As far as caliber, .22 LR is not a good choice for 100 yard shooting. No matter how good the rifle, .22 LR will not group well once it travels far enough to go subsonic (which it does at 100 yds). At 14 years of age, he should be able to handle any normal centerfire with a little practice. My recommendation would be a .223 bolt gun. I bought a Howa M1500 varminter synthetic at Wal-Mart for $359 about 3 years ago. I plopped a Bushnell Banner series 6.5-18x 50mm scope on it and this $550 unit will print 3/4"-1" groups every with decent ammo (rested and sandbagged; I'm not that good;) )
 
Far be it from me to dissuade someone from buying more toys, but it seems that you already have plenty of decent .22s to start him out.

How about getting him involved, like others mentioned, in a Basic Rifle course and then some form of youth .22 rifle sports.

Then, set some sort of benchmark like "if you shoot a XYZ score in a match" or "when you take X place in a match", and use that as the time to buy him a centerfire "sniper" rifle.

If he's been competing, by the time he hits your benchmark he should have a clear idea of what kind of gun he wants to move up to from the .22LR. That way you'll buy a little time, let him make his own decision, and reward his efforts with a great present.

People appreciate things more when they have to work to get them.

Let us know what you end up deciding,

-MV
 
Thanks guys for all the suggestions.

I am looking into the local rifle club (LARC) as they shoot at a range only 40min away from us and have low power matches. I intend to be a student also so we can share in the experience together. I do know how to shoot a rifle (the basics) but don't really know the fine points of shooting in different positions so we both would need some coaching.

I think that he should learn to shoot with iron sights first. As my Dad (WWII Vet.) always said “if you can't hit it with iron sights, you shouldn't be shooting at it”. (personally I think he didn't want to spend the money on a scope) But there is something to his statement, scopes do break and you might need to shoot via iron and I think that it would be a useful skill. Of course, with my 48yr. old eyes I found that shooting iron sights difficult.

The local club (according to their web site) shoots the low power matches at 50yds with half size targets. They also recommend guns with removable magazines. So I am looking at the CZ452 and the Savage Mark II guns for low power.

When he is ready, we will probably move up to a Savage 12FVLP in .223 and put a good scope on it (I might just buy one anyway, I've had my eye on one for some time) . He really, really wants a Garand and is saving up money to get one when he is old enough(cool).
 
CZRyan,
I think it's a great idea to do this together.

I think there were 2 or 3 clubs that held matches at LARC earlier this year, and a really great group of people.
I started shooting with the Lockheed club and the Golden Bears, met some really good people who were always ready to help.
I started with inexpensive M96 swede mausers, transitioned to swede CG/63 target rifles, before ending up with a Cloward pre-64 Win 70. I would suggest you just go and watch a match. And don't be too quick to buy a new rifle, as you may be able to find a used rifle from someone already set-up. I carried a spare scope and scope stand for new people to use, other guys had spare matts, coats, etc. Tom Temple among others was always willing to help out somebody who had questions (and I had a lot!).
Tim Baker
 
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