My First Handgun -- Kimber - Is it worth the money?

i had a 4" custom cdp ii and it shot great. i didnt shoot it enough to enjoy and i did a last minute purchase at the gunshow later realizing it was not the 5" model i was looking for.

"Thanks Socrates, I like that S&W"
YOUR WELCOME.

I would REALLY like to have the Detonics design, with the S&W Scandium frame.

One other thought. You mentioned camping, and, the 45 ACP is ok, but, you can easily set your gun up to shoot 45 Super, and 45 ACP.

www.buffalobore.com currently loads 230 grain bullets, at 1100 fps, a nice bit of a jump for more power in 45ACP. Do a websearch for 45 Super, read up on it a bit, and, I think you'll find it's worth going to, for defense, and cats.

I know a gunsmith that can convert your gun for under 100 dollars to shoot 45 Super. You shoot that a little, and, practice with 45 ACP, 230 grain, super cheap, ball ammo.

If I was camping, or for home defense, the extra penetration created by the higher velocity gives me the warm and fuzzies over the 45 ACP.

S

The S&W, with the scandium frame, is super strong, and light, plus, they use all forged parts, IIRC.

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Can others in the know confirm that SW 1911s have no MIM parts?

Kimber has occasional problems with their external extractor

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The SW1911 has an external extractor also. While it may work fine, I would not buy it for that reason alone. Difficult to adjust yourself and no aftermarket extractors for it.

Ive got around 700.00 tied up in my Kimber and it has no faults. But, neither does my 275.00 used Norinco. If I had stumbled on the Nork first I doubt I would have sprang for the Kimber. There sure is a diffrence, but not that much............Essex

I can't confirm that S&W uses no MIM parts. I can confirm that SIG uses no MIM parts.

SIGARMS uses only premium internal parts which means no plastic and no MIM parts.

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http://www.sigarms.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=25&productid=132
That, among other reasons, is why I'm getting a SIG GSR soon.

it just seems like Kimber has occasional problems with their external extractor and isnt worth the risk to me.

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The Kimber you posted does not have an external extractor.

The 1911 is referred to as such because 1911 was the year that it entered military service, which is also the genesis of it's service designation, M1911. In modern usage, 1911 refers to any pistol based upon or a reproduction of the original M1911. In my opinion, the name has been bastardized a little bit (calling a Kimber a 1911 is like calling a BMW a Model T), but thats just me being crotchety.

I bought a Kimber Custom II a few years ago for $612, and I use it for everything. I carry it, I put it in a leg holster whenever I'm outdoors, if I wouldn't get into serious trouble, I would carry it to war. I have never had a part failure of any kind. I replaced the sights with Trijicon, I put Hogue wrap-around grips on it, I dropped the full-length guide rod. (It has the conventional extractor.)

The big difference between A Kimber and cheaper 1911s is the hand-fitted slide-to-frame fit. This means the action is much tighter ans smoother than your grandfather's WWII issue 1911. What this means to you is, 2" at 25 yards accuracy, where a lesser 1911 will probably give you 3 or 4. If that kind of accuracy is what you need, this is where is starts. (Most shooters really don't.) For many years, the high-end shops like Wilson and Les Baer, etc, had most of us convinced that to get a 1911 with a hand fitted silde, you had to spend north of $1500. Last weekend at Impact, I shot a Nighthawk Custom 1911 with a $2700 price tag, (I will admit, the machined aluminum grips felt GREAT,) and the bottom line was, it can't do anything my Kimber can't do. MAYBE 1" accuracy, IF you are really that good of a shot.

If you want a good first gun thats chambered in .45, you should buy a Taurus PT145 Millenium Pro. It holds 10+1 shots of .45 and is less than 6 inches long and wieghs in at about 2 pounds. Great conceal carry, subcompact, powerful gun. That is what i plan to get when i turn 21.

If you have the money and want the gun go for it.

There are some nice pieces out there for almost half the price that are great shooters. You could get a really nice handgun for $600 and spend the balance on kick ass shotgun, decent rifle or a ton of ammo.

cedjunior, thanks for telling me that, but where did you find that info? I cant find it on the website anywhere? Also, Isn't it bad that the Kimber Tactical Custom II is made using MIM parts? Has anyone had their parts break?

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Here is a pic of a S&W WITH an external Extractor. You can tell just by looking at them.


EDIT: The debate about MIM parts is that they can be very poor quality if not manufactured right. Some people prefer to have zero MIM parts in their guns and will settle for nothing less, and some people give a quality manufacturer, like Kimber, SA, or S&W, the benefit of the doubt that they will manufacture quality MIM parts that wont fail.

Ripcurlksm,
Look at this thread and pay special attention to the posts by 1911Tuner and Old Fuff. Draw your own conclusions on MIM, but there's some info from folks with far more expertise than me. If you want to know more do an advanced search for MIM and posts by either of those gentlemen. I hope that clarifies the MIM mystery for you.

Edit: Doh...forgot to paste in the link, http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=91285&highlight=MIM

I have an Eclipse Custom II and i love it, it took about 400 rds to break in, but now it is flawless. I did not read all of the above posts, so I'm sorry if you hear an echo in the room...If you read around, and do a search(like I did) you will see that all 1911's being made today have MIM parts in them. With that said, some people do not like having a newer1911 as their Carry/HD peice, because of the slight chance something could break. I am far from an expert, but i guess it just has something to do with the 1911 platform not accepting the MIM peices because they weren't made for them to be that way. With that said, there are plenty of pistols out there that have MIM parts in them, but were made to have them so they work just fine.

If you are wanting some positive reinforcement to back your decision, I'd say go for it, you won't be dissapointed. BUT, if you have to have a .45, and aren't planning on getting anymore handguns after this one, I personally wouldn't spend over a grand for a gun that is just going to sit in the sock drawer, when I could spend much less on a different gun that will work just as well.

Thats just my two cents, but ive been called an idiot at least once or twice before.

For a first handgun, I say go with a cheaper one. This is so that you'll know for sure whether or not you want to invest $1k into a handgun.

However, if you have enough experience with handguns and you know you will treasure the Kimber, then go for it.

I'd personally prefer an STI Eagle 6.0. 1911 doublestack longslide, need I say any more?

I have a safe full of various 1911 pattern pistols. IMO Kimber is the best value, and my various Kimbers have proven reliable. I've never had a mim related failure after thousands of rounds down the pipe. I shoot my Kimbers more that Colt or Ed Brown.

From my experience on the various forums, mim failures appear to happen early in the life of the equipment. There are also documented cases of quality forged parts breaking at an early age.

Regarding the external ext. on Kimbers, it's history. Don't worry about it, and don't buy an old Kimber with an ee. Regarding the S&W 1911, it seems to be a good pistol, but due to the external extractor I wouldn't buy one simply because it lacks the purity of the JMB original design.

However I would own one if I got a steal of a deal. The S&W external ext has been around for decades on their semi-autos, and has been reliable. I do own an older S&W 915, 9mm, pre-ban that holds 15 rounds in the magazine. Essentially the same extractor - never any problems.

If you do get the Kimber, you will be pleased. If you're hung up on the mim issue, break in the gun and after a couple 1000 rounds decide for yourself it you're still uncomfortable with the mim parts. That's what I did, and at this point, I'm not worried about mim. Niether is LAPD SWAT!

I've got a half dozen or so 1911's, including a couple of Kimbers I've been happy with.

But if I had to pick one, it'd be an STI. If I was set on a 5" Kimber, I'd be looking at a single stack Trojan - under 1K from Dawson Precision (unless you spring for the enhancement package, which I would also recommend).

For the record, I own two SW1911s. Both have been 100% reliable, and both are accurate guns. I bought both used for a very good price. I prefer Colts, but the price on these SW1911s was so good I could not pass them up.

Both of my SW1911s contain factory MIM parts, most likely made by Chip McCormick. These parts include: sear, disconnect, hammer, slide stop, mag release, thumb safety and grip safety. All these parts have sprue marks on them.

To be fair, both these pistols are early SW1911s that included different parts from different manufacturers, including barrels from Briley. I do not know if the more recent SW1911s have the same amount of MIM, or if they have the parts coming from the same sources.

For a first handgun I would suggest a revolver or something a little less expensive and easier to use. A 1911 is not the easiest weapon to clean for a new user. I suggest a glock or an HK if you do not like revolvers.

There is nothing wrong with a "1911" as your first handgun. I know quite a few people who went with something else for their first gun and came back to the 1911. Most beginners that I work with start out on a .22 and then I give them the .45 with lighter target loads and they enjoy it. My wife's favorite is our 1911's.

I own two of the original Kimbers and although they have been good to me if I were to buy another 1911 it would be an STI. You will be getting more gun for the same money:
http://www.stiguns.com/guns/Trojan5/Trojan5.html

Whatever you purchase, take it to the range and get plenty of practice. Find some friends that like to shoot and don't be afraid to ask.

Don't be lulled into the notion that you need to 'work up' to being able to throw money away on a Kimber. It's a 1911 model .45 ACP, and saying a Springfield 1911 or Sig is different from a Kimber is like apples and oranges.

The only reason Kimber and Wilson Combat charge thousands is because dumb people will pay for something that has "CUSTOM SHOP" or "TACTICAL ELITE" laser etched into the slide. A rose is a rose, a $600 1911 is a $1,500 1911.

-OR-

Drop about $500 on a MILSPEC .45 and buy replacement parts for it. Ambi safety, full length guide rod and match springs, etc.. You can even have gunsmiths put serrations on the slide and checker the front and backstraps. Even with all these customizations calculated you still won't come NEAR the price of what Kimber wants for what you can have done at a fraction of the cost.

-OR-

Don't get a 3.5lb hammer and instead get a modern, more reliable H&K USPf .45 Shoots like a dream, is still less money and you won't have as many problems that are associated with 1911's.

ripcurlksm,

I'm not aware of any problems with the S&W external extractor, but I have not investigated it either.

Learning how to tune the extractor on a 1911 was a real right of passage for me. My first handgun was a Springfield Loaded. Great gun except that the extractor was a limp noodle, and the source of malfunctions. Drove me nuts until I replaced it with a Wilson Bullet Proof Extractor and learned how to tune it. Works great now.

Now that I know how, I want to be able to tune my 1911's myself. I would lose that ability with an external extractor 1911, and there are no after market external extractor parts.

I think the Kimber TLE is the best value on a 1911 right now with night sights and front strap checkering on a steel frame.