Bush administration reverses Ashcroft in TSA ruling

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Librarian

Librarian

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From David Codrea: See the War on Guns site.

See the original spaceflight rules.
XCOR inquired whether the FAA had the authority to impose security requirements under its statute and the U.S. Constitution. The Second Amendment to the Constitution provides that ``[a] well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.'' This right is not unfettered. Nearly every statute restricting the right to bear arms has been upheld. For example, in 1958, Congress made it a criminal offense to knowingly carry a firearm onto an airplane engaged in air transportation. 49 U.S.C. 46505. Additionally, nearly all courts have also held that the Second Amendment is a collective right, rather than a personal right. Therefore, despite the Second Amendment collective right to bear arms, the FAA has the authority to prohibit firearms on launch and reentry vehicles for safety and security purposes.
Click to expand...
No question FAA has the authority, but the reasoning here is backsliding...
 
A quick glance at the FAA's 'spaceflight rules' leaves me with the impression of .gov saying 'Gee, Burt Rutan made us look really stupid. Let's shut him down as quick as we can.'
 
Additionally, nearly all courts have also held that the Second Amendment is a collective right, rather than a personal right.
Click to expand...

Ah, yes, the mantra hums along and if you repeat a lie often enough....I
guess my religious freedom is a collective one as well? I better make sure
I go to a state-approved Church for Christmas Eve services tomorrow......
the Chinese have to do the same thing, too.
 
Dave Codrea dug deeper and got verification from the FAA about the rule. Here is the scary part:

This rule, including its security requirements, underwent coordination and review within the executive branch. It was reviewed and approved by the Executive Office of the President.​

So is the Bush Whitehouse now supporting the opposite interpretation than the Ashcroft DOJ established? If so, will it trickle back down to the DOJ?
 
No guns on spacecraft??

"A space flight participant may not carry on board any explosives, firearms, knives, or other weapons."
 
Does a fire axe count? I mean, the last time I flew in an airliner, there was one of those clipped to the bulkhead next to the door.

I can imagine a bad landing far from the intended field, and having to chop yer way out of the wreckage, and maybe cut some firewood or something.

Are scalpels allowed in the first-aid kits?

Good GooglyMoogly, survival kits in aircraft have *always* included some kinda weapon!

edited for spelling.
 
Ah, yes, the mantra hums along and if you repeat a lie often enough....I
guess my religious freedom is a collective one as well? I better make sure
I go to a state-approved Church for Christmas Eve services tomorrow......
the Chinese have to do the same thing, too.
Click to expand...

Where does the "collective right" argument stop? Well it doesnt in a socialist utopia.:cuss:
 
Perhaps all the rights acknowledged in the so-called Bill of Rights are essentially collective rather than individual rights.
 
More government Orwellian double-speak. Essentially the FAA said, "Yes keeping and bearing arms is a right, but we can restrict that right to only be excercized by the government"

Classic "Freedom is Slavery".

If guns on planes were actually an intrinsic safety problem, as the government argues, then there would be no guns on Air Force One because we want the President safe, right?

By the way...why should we vote Republican again? Because we like being stabbed in the back?
 
Anyone can carry a gun onto a plane. Just make sure that the plane is not a commercial flight.

In other words, I can fly a privately owned aircraft, such as one rented from a local FBO, while wearing a 1911 on my hip. [Glocks are not allowed] And, I can ride in a chartered aircraft while carrying a gun.

So, why can't I do the same on a privately owned or chartered spacecraft?
 
It has never been at the pilot's discretion. At one time, a crewmember could carry a gun if the certificate holder (that's the company) allowed and authorized it. This had to be in the General Operations Manual, and since the FAA reviewed the GOM and basically authorized everything in it, I doubt if anyone had legally carried since the '40s. First, the company wouldn't allow it, and if they did, the FAA would have shot it down. This pertained to FAR 121 (airline, passenger or cargo). On private aircraft there never has been and still isn't a restriction on the federal level.

org
 
It has never been at the pilot's discretion. At one time, a crewmember could carry a gun if the certificate holder (that's the company) allowed and authorized it. This had to be in the General Operations Manual, and since the FAA reviewed the GOM and basically authorized everything in it, I doubt if anyone had legally carried since the '40s. First, the company wouldn't allow it, and if they did, the FAA would have shot it down. This pertained to FAR 121 (airline, passenger or cargo). On private aircraft there never has been and still isn't a restriction on the federal level.

org
Click to expand...

I wasn't remembering correctly. It was an obscure regulation.

"Interestingly, in the thicket of the Federal Aviation Regulations, there remained a little known and completely unused provision that allowed individual airlines to arm their pilots. Coincidentally, the FAA chose July of 2001 to start the process of removing that regulation from the books. The sad irony is that the process was completed in September of 2001. The very month that airliners were used as guided bombs was the month that the FAA made it official that no airline pilot could ever be armed.”

Very, very little was said about this post-911. It's hard to find anything on it.
 
So is the Bush Whitehouse now supporting the opposite interpretation than the Ashcroft DOJ established?
Click to expand...

Always did; Or didn't you notice that, while Ashcroft was permitted to talk about how it was an individual right, the Justice department was required to continue defending every gun control law ever passed, and opposing certiori for all 2nd amendment challenges to gun control laws?

It was never intended, (By Bush, anyway.) as anything but an empty guesture. And now that he no longer faces reelection, he doesn't need to make any guestures our way. Not friendly ones, at any rate...
 
I little ditty to note about space craft, which include suborbital pods like the one Rutan built, is that they can come down just about anywhere.

The Russians had an experience with one pod that left their crew stranded in the wilderness, almost attacked by wolves. You can probably see worse happening with an American crews and the politics of today.
Decisions about arming of the ships crew should be left with its operators based on what they think their needs would be for the crews safety.

Cuz frankly the FAA is not the one in danger when things go wrong aboard a ship.
 
A quick glance at the FAA's 'spaceflight rules' leaves me with the impression of .gov saying 'Gee, Burt Rutan made us look really stupid. Let's shut him down as quick as we can.'
Click to expand...

Oh, that definitely embarassed the government. With all the cost and fiascos about the shuttle, Rutan, a certifiable genius, put SpaceShip One into suborbit, came back down with its unique shuttlecock design to slow down, landed...and had it towed back to the hangar with a pickup truck. And while giving an interview, the distinctive sound of an ordinary wrench hitting the tarmac near it could be heard.

Now, that's a spaceship...one you can tow with a pickup truck and work on with a wrench. The .gov has been extremely pissy about flight rules since that. :D
 
If you want to do something about it, email your polite but firm thinking that the 2A describes the individual right of Americans (and not any so-called collective right) to the following:

[email protected] (Ken Mehlman, chairman of the Republican party)

[email protected] (pretty obvious)

I did so, and made it clear that neither McCain nor Guiliani would get my vote due to their histories of attacking the rights of lawful gun owners.

The more voices Mehlman hears on this, the more clear the message...
 
This " 2nd A is a collective right " nonsense is one of the biggest bald-faced lies in government today. I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no basis for that interpretation, and they know it.
 
Saying that 2A is a collective right is just as if it was said that 1A only applied to organized, licensed newspapers and other approved groups of writers.

It doesn't.
 
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