Wonkette attack on the NRA with cheering from KOS?

Personal attacks as a response to matters of established fact and logical inference are generally the sign or someone whose argument is intellectually bankrupt.

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Not a personal attack. You are seeing something that is clearly not there and creating a caricature of the people/person who made it.

Your caricature is far uglier than what is actually portrayed in the document.

If you are always looking to be offended you will not not be disappointed. Hence saying you are wound to tight.

I enjoy debating issues with left of center folks but tire of the race card being pulled out as a magic weapon to get us all to agree with you or shut up.

I read the booklet and dismissed it as another George Soros and the libs are taking over the world rant.

Then I see what you have to say and reread it to see what I missed. I missed nothing, you are seeing ghosts and boogie men where there are none.

Accusing someone of ad hominem attacks is a trick used by those with an intellectually bankrupt argument also.

Washington State created an anti-drunk driving commercial (state sanctioned, state approved, paid for by state funds).

It shows 3 different scnerios where people are pulled over for drunk driving.

Each time the 'perpetrator' is a white male between the ages of 21 to 30.

Is the commercial racist? Is it ageist?

Is the State of Washington acting in a morally reprehensible manner by not including minorities and women in the commercial as drunk drivers?

Or do the statistics just demonstrate that *most drunk drivers are white males? If true, does that justify such a one sided presentation?

Who commits the most violent crimes (or crimes of property) in this country? (what demographic). IIRC it is African Americans (certianly proportinally the most crime, if not in total the most) If that's the case, would that be enough to justify a one sided presentation?

Are most NRA members, in fact, white? I suspect so. If true would that justify the organization's use of marketing that is directed toward their target demographic?

Sometimes when presenting statistically proven truths (reality), the product created can appear racist without any intent for it to actually be racist.

And in regards to the lobster, folks might want to look into "Animal Rights" nuts. In California they have passed laws essencially moving pets from the property to the person catagory (equivilent to a child in regards to tort if the pet is hurt or injurered by another party).

Animal rightists have repeatedly used Unibomber type tactics against farmers, educational facilitys, corporations and private property owners. Their actions have resulted in deaths, and extensive damage to personal property. And yes, in many cases they have used gasoline as a weapon, just like ELF.

tellner said:

The Good Guys - the cop, the old lady, the family, the little children - are always pleasingly proportioned, neat, clean and above all else White. Sorry guys, there's absolutely no denying it. The good people are all White. Every single dark-skinned person, all six of them are either members of "Alien gangs" or demonic monsters bursting through the sanctity of the television set to threaten the White family.

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Politically-correct horsehockey. As far as I can see, there's only one "bad" character (the reporter) who is non-white, but doesn't have to be by definition. Most of the bad guys are white -- the politicians, the eco-terrorists, the swat team. The fact that the protagonist family is white shouldn't surprise anyone, considering who the intended audience is.

There are definitely racial undertones in the piece, but... so what? There are racial under- and overtones in very real problems in America today -- but the obnoxious PC-police will jump up and down screaming hysterically any time anyone even suggests it (unless it's portraying people of color as victims).

That's a very heart-felt defense of the NRA. It also cuts about as much ice as a soap hacksaw I'm afraid. If you target your message to make everyone good White and everyone who isn't White evil that isn't just the appearance of bigoted race-baiting. It's practically the dictionary definition of bigoted race-baiting.

If it really is from the NRA I'll be cancelling my Life membership as soon as it's confirmed.

bouis:

Politically correct horse hockey? Open your eyes and actually look at what's on the page. There are seven non-White people. Every single one of them is an "alien" gangster or a demon bursting out of the television set. Every single one. If "political correctness" means "there are non-Whites who aren't criminals or subhumans" then for the love of G-d call me politically correct. If you're OK with the idea that all non-Whites are evil, then I don't know what to say to you. Just stay the heck off my property and keep your hands where I can see them at all times.

If you're OK with the idea that all non-Whites are evil, then I don't know what to say to you.

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Who said that?

wheres that .gif of the strawman I used to have...

Because I am open minded I went back and checked it out a third time. I just cannot see your point. Almost all the bad guys (enemies of our gun rights mostly) are white politicians/entertainers or activists.

The non white folks you refer to are on the page about illegal alien gangs! Of course they are not white.

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, so to speak.

I can see both sides of this argument--and I really do think that this is a case where the "personal interpretation" holds sway.

Tellner's analysis is accurate--IF you want to ascribe those attributes to the NRA/brochure-makers, whatever--and that is clearly projection.

OTOH, GoRon's analysis is equally accurate, IMO--because he doesn't want to ascribe such attributes.

The caricatures in the brochure are not inaccurate--the political enemies are readily recognizable, and the "racial overtones" found in the gangs are certainly not inaccurate, just stereotypes. bouis and dave_2a's contentions are about right, I think.

tellner: now that I look at the picture closely, the reporter isn't even supposed to be black. He has bulbous features, but the "artist" draws numerous white characters that way; his skin is red, not brown, his lips are small (look at the black politicians on the first couple pages), and his hair is straight.

So now you're reduced to arguing that it's racist because... the illegal alien gangs are portrayed as hispanic?

Yeah, horse hockey.

GoRon, I wish it were uglier than what's portrayed. In another life I studied political propaganda art, especially posters. The semiotics here are unmistakable. And they really are that ugly if you look at them as examples of type. The message is about half a step removed from the untreated effluent of the National Vanguard and "Stop the mudslide!" crowd. It's eerily reminiscent of some of George Lincoln Rockwell's material although drawn to a higher artistic standard.

The words are a separate matter. They're actually less important than the pictures since it's the pictures that make hit below the critical faculties. And they're absolutely consistent. You'll note that even when ethnicity isn't apparent among villains the police hurting the little old White lady are all colored black. The hordes descending on the brave White father and his shotgun are all sillhouetted in a fashion that makes their color black. The only evil White faces are formerly-recognizable ones caricatured to the inhuman. The only White opponents who are not so caricatured are the environmental activists, and their faces are carefully removed from the picture.

If the message is intentional it's evil.

If the message is unintentional there's something seriously wrong with the entire group of people who came up with it. It would be hard to do as studied a piece if one tried. The idea that it's so deeply entrenched as to be entirely unconscious is frightening.

Bottom line:

If the NRA comes out and loudly and categorically says "We had nothing to do with this. None of our people had anything to do with this. Someone used our artwork and logos without our permission, and we intend to sue them into next week. We disavow its poisonous message," I'll take them at their word.

If they weasel and say "It's not an official NRA publication. We consider many ways of getting our important message across. We've never released this item," or similar then decent people will be forced to take the silence as support and demand a change in the leadership.

Reminds me of something from a Ron White comedy routine where he observes that 'You can't cure stupid'. Sounds like Wonkette has gone around the bend one too many times. I was going to say that Wonkette is probably in dire need of being l**d, but I would likely be censored by an admin or mod.

Gee, I mean, when you think about it, everything is racist. Take Star Wars for example: the dark side?

Horse. Hockey.

Starwars?

Take Star Wars for example: the dark side?

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May the force never kick in your door at 3 am!

Tellner, @ the time , I couldn't stand Reagan , I protested him and still kind of find the whole Iran/contra thing highly suspect.

Jimmy Carter was pro life and ended federal funding for abortion!
The regular libs always forget that. Conservatives never thank him for that.

I am glad you are here Tellner, even though we saw the same things and came to different conclusions.

We need all the pro gun people we can get to stand up against ghoulianni and pelosi.

We need left and right united for our rights.

Update on the original blog entry:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/12/25/16817/695

The illustrator for this pamphlet is Chris Gall, and everything he draws comes across looking like WWII nazi propaganda art. Look for yourself:
www.chrisgall.com
Any impressions of implied racism can be attributed to the viewer's interpretation at best and the artist's style at worst. It can in no way be attributed to the NRA.

" it bespeaks a degree of blatant racism "

Is Roy Innis of CORE still on the NRA Board of Directors?
Blatant racism?
This whole thing sounds like an anti-gun lefty parody of
what they think us NRA types are like, you know we all
drink beer, don't vote and lie to our wives about how we
spend our weekends.

QUOTE: "If they weasel and say "It's not an official NRA publication. We consider many ways of getting our important message across. We've never released this item," or similar then decent people will be forced to take the silence as support and demand a change in the leadership."

A lot of times an organization or company will hire a creative marketing firm (or artistic firm, or ghost writer, copy editor, etc) and simply say in very general terms what they want out of a project.

I.e. they might tell a firm "create a pro-gun phamplet that has an emphasis on 1) who wants to errode the 2nd amendment and 2) what happens when society breaks down.

They give such general instructions so that the artistic firm, or marketers can have LICENSE to actually be creative. To produce a product untainted by the purchasing company or organization -- because often the suit and tie corporate guys have zero imagination and can't relate to effective marketing or the creative process.

This is actually a common practice, especially with logo design, but also with entire marketing campaighns and phamplets.

They might even give 3 different subcontractors the same loose criteria for the same project to see multiple interpertations of the task. Then they might go with just one firm, or use elements from all the different initial drafts to create the end product (and have one of the firms assemble the finished product), or they may give a whole new firm all the other rough drafts with an explanation of which elements they like and which they don't like -- and instructions to create something new but incorporate the things they like from the first 3 products.

This is I.P. generation 101. Sometimes the owner of a peice of I.P. has little to do with it's creation, esspecially in early forms of the peice.

I would not neccesarily disown the NRA if it turns out this is their phamplet, if only because it could have been made with virtually zero input from them and with no genuine intent of distribution.

Besides, the hippy chick is clearly white, and she's depicted as a "bad guy" -- and deservedly so, after all she doesn't shave EWWWWWWWWW

And whoever thinks the iconic media face jumping out of the TV is supposed to represent ANY race of person... go buy glasses, you're obviously blind.

Yup, pretty accurate. See all those evil white people How is this racist? How is this inaccurate?

These 4 persons are the enemy of the 2nd amendment. Each one has been a outspoken critic of firearms ownership, in the hands of pleabians anyways (after all Feinswine had a CCW in CA, even as she was actively fighting against YOUR right to have one).

Ya know, the irony is that most of these people look WORSE in person than in the graphic pamplet. These people are sideshow-freak worthy in real life (and I myself ain't no peacock). So what's the hub-bub? I'd argue that the artitist was charitable (but seriously, duh, they are caricatures, here's a buck wonkette... go buy a clue)

Again, how is this grapic novel wrong? That revolver with it's barrel tied in a knot REALLY IS in front of the United Nations headquarters.

The U.N. really does want to ban all firearms, both in the hands of private citizens and in the hands of nationalistic armies.

Yes Virginia, the U.N. really does want a one world government, or at least a federalized world government with marginalized nationalilstic powers.

HOW IS THIS RACIST?

This is actually a celebration of diversity -- there's a lesbian, a African American, a woman, a fat challanged man. Damn, kumbaya, group hug, how P.C. of them.

And how is this page incorrect? All of these people are outspoken enemies of the 2nd amendment -- each and every one.

Those involved with the NOLA gun seizures are the WORST of the bunch, and it's not because they are black,,, rather it is because they COMPLETLY ignored due process. At least Hillary and Kennedy give lip service to due process.


I just have to repeat, go look up the definition of caricature, here's a buck wonkette... go buy a clue.

Well, I like the brochure.

When I get my inkjet recharged, I think I'll run off the brochure.

Meanwhile, dave_pro2a seems to be on top of the rhetorical issues.

Again, how is this inaccurate?

Have you ever visited LA?

Do you have your head in the sand about MS-13? The fastest growing street gang that has spread to just about every state in the continental United States.

Go use google and research the 'gang problem.' Most gangs are comprised of blacks or latinos. (yes there are some asian and white gangs, but they are a minority in the gang world).

http://www.gangwatchers.org/gang-names.html Count the number of mexican/latino gangs on this website, these are the largest, most prevelant gangs in the states, and ain't one of them comprised of white members... they are mostly latino gangs.

http://www.policemag.com/t_cipick.cfm?rank=90876
"America's Most Dangerous Gang
by Shelly Feuer Domash
Spreading from El Salvador to L.A. and across the United States, Mara Salvatrucha 13 is increasingly well organized and deadly."

Racist, or reality?

Really the only white gangs are the white power kooks. And if you want to see which gangs are more prevelant, have more power, do more crime, cause more harm, property damage, deaths -- then just go look at the population in your average prison. White power kook gangs are on the bottom of the power structure because they are few in number compared to black and hispanic gangs.

So again, how is this illustration inaccurate?

I'd suggest anyone who doesn't read that pamphlet and seriously think about the issues it raises needs to rethink their feelings about America, sovereignty and the second amendment.

But then with all the BATFE apologists on this site, I'm not surprised some of you are all up in arms about the pamphlet

And for the record, I don't like the NRA. This pamphlet has nothing to do about it... I hate them because they believe in the gun show loophole and WANT TO CLOSE IT. They supported the 1994 AWB. They did NOT fight the MG ban. They are capitulating pansies that are almost as much a part of the problem as they are the solution.

Explain to me how this drawing is innacurate? Please, really! No, really, please explain it!

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-11-14-domestic-terrorism_x.htm
"Last month in Utah, two men described by the U.S. attorney there as "domestic terrorists" pleaded guilty to setting separate arson fires related to eco-terrorism. Justus Ireland, 23, admitted starting a fire that caused $1.5 million damage at a West Jordan lumber company and spray-painting "ELF" at the site. The Earth Liberation Front has been connected to dozens of acts of vandalism and arson around the country since 1996. Joshua Demmitt, 18, of Provo, pleaded guilty to starting a fire at Brigham Young University's.

In May, the FBI's domestic terrorism unit charged seven members of an animal rights group with terrorism after investigating what they said was a marked increase in crimes to stop the use of animals for product-testing. The activists, arrested in New York, New Jersey, California and Washington state, are members of Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty. The group seeks to shut down Huntingdon Life Sciences, a New Jersey product-testing company.

Prosecutors allege that the activists set fire to Huntingdon employees' cars, vandalized shareholders' homes and threatened their families. They are charged with conspiring to commit terrorism against an enterprise that uses animals for research and could face up to three years in prison if convicted."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/19/domestic.terrorism/index.html
"WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Violent animal rights extremists and eco-terrorists now pose one of the most serious terrorism threats to the nation, top federal law enforcement officials say.

Senior officials from the FBI and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms (ATF) and Explosives told a Senate panel Wednesday of their growing concern over these groups.

Of particular concern are the Animal Liberation Front (ALF) and the Earth Liberation Front (ELF).

In the same period violence from groups like the Ku Klux Klan and anti-abortion extremists have declined, Lewis said.

The ELF has been linked to fires set at sport utility vehicle dealerships and construction sites in various states, while the ALF has been blamed for arson and bombings against animal research labs and the pharmaceutical and cosmetics industry."

http://www.fbi.gov/congress/congress02/jarboe021202.htm
"During the past several years, special interest extremism, as characterized by the Animal Liberation Front (ALF) and the Earth Liberation Front (ELF), has emerged as a serious terrorist threat.

In recent years, the Animal Liberation Front (ALF) has become one of the most active extremist elements in the United States

The ALF activists have engaged in a steadily growing campaign of illegal activity against fur companies, mink farms, restaurants, and animal research laboratories.

Estimates of damage and destruction in the United States claimed by the ALF during the past ten years, as compiled by national organizations such as the Fur Commission and the National Association for Biomedical Research (NABR), put the fur industry and medical research losses at more than 45 million dollars. The ALF is considered a terrorist group, whose purpose is to bring about social and political change through the use of force and violence.

The most destructive practice of the ALF/ELF is arson. The ALF/ELF members consistently use improvised incendiary devices equipped with crude but effective timing mechanisms. These incendiary devices are often constructed based upon instructions found on the ALF/ELF websites. The ALF/ELF criminal incidents often involve pre-activity surveillance and well-planned operations."



I could go on and on and on with these articles. Again, PLEASE explain how this illustration is wrong!!!

If you think this illsuration condems all hippies, then you're an idiot who can't read. The caption clearly says "animal rights terrorists," and they do exist, and it is well documented that they have been becoming progressively more pervasive and dangerous.

QUOTE FROM WONKETTE: "When a disaster hits white people like yourself, you’ll need plenty of guns to shoot the mobs of minorities."

Prove to me this is a depiction of a black mob.

Friggen idiot @ Wonkette. This pamphlet is done in the style of a graphic novel.

Go buy the batman graphic novel, or a Frank Miller novel. They all use the same lighting/shading techniques for characters that are far off in the distant. You can't even tell if those people are black, white, pink, blue green or purple. It is a illustration of a night time scene, of objects in the far distant, with no light on them, of course they are just black blobs -- NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH A BLACK MOB you idiots at wonkette

Are these people (in these illustrations) black or white? (some are gifs so hotlink might not work)











Wonkette folks really need to learn about illustrations, and photography too, before they make wild unfounded accusations about racism (dipiction of alleged 'black mobs') in a graphic pamphlet. Such shading of distant persons is 100% a legitimate practice!

There are cases where IGNORANCE and STUPIDITY are excusable -- this case with Wonkette is not one of those cases. This was intentional misleading, misrepresentation, propaganda (on the part of wonkette) imho, and they knew exactly what they were doing -- a partisan, politically motivated smear campaign (again, imho).

Again I ask, " Please, ANYONE, prove to me that the alleged NRA illustration depicts a BLACK MOB."

How about start over? Discuss in objective language, without all this emotional backing and forthing and squabbling.

Merry Christmas.

I guess.

Art