What do you look for in a basic trainer?

Status
Not open for further replies.

YammyMonkey

Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2004
Messages
828
Location
Denver, CO
I'm looking at getting certified as an NRA trainer early 2007. I've had some experience with setting up & providing training for general military & civillian rescue groups.

I'm narrowing down the local ranges that I'll be able to "work" from & finalizing the business structure right now, but besides being able to sign off on the state-acceptable course for CCW permits, what would you look for in an instructor you were going to take an NRA-level class from? I've never been in some super HSLD or even Mid-Speed Moderate-Drag type group, & have no delusions of being the next Pat Rogers or even Dr. Piazza, just a guy that wants to provide high quality training & host some more advanced classes from guys like Pat under his own business name.

So far the "training plan" is to get all the basic instructor training done in Feb. & Mar. & start asking around with some of the local NRA instructors about working for them assisting with classes on an as-needed basis while taking as many of the Pat Rogers/Gabe Suarez/Valhalla type classes as I can afford to attend to build my skill & experience base. As of now the goal is to be on my feet teaching my own organized NRA classes within a year of getting certified.

Any input would be appreciated.

ETA:
I'm also going to look into getting certified as an EMT again, but I'll have to wait until I get up & running on my own; family, job & rescue stuff doesn't leave much time for schooling. At least I'll have my OEC (ski patrol medical certification) by the end of the year, step in the right direction with medical stuff.
 
Someone who can show in a course outline what the course objectives are before the course starts. Someone who isn't trying to turn beginners into world class shooters in one class. Someone who is familiar with the common mistakes beginning shooters make and can identify them by watching the student shoot. And finally, someone who isn't so full of himself he comes across to the students as 'macho' shooter.

Pilgrim
 
When you take the course, the instructor should talk about liability insurance, either thru the NRA or from an agent you find on your own.
I took the basic instructor and basic pistol all at once, then took my states CCW instructors course, all of this was done after talking to a local instructor and offering to help with classes. Good luck
 
Anyone else?

The more I look into this & where I should be I think I may need to extend the timeline to where I can actually be running classes on my own.

For an additional twist, what kinds of perks or features of a basic state level CCW class would make you choose one over the other. Obviously cost would be one, and some people will only take classes from people who have "seen the elephant" and there really isn't anything that I can do about that. Anything else that would steer you to or away from a particular instructor?
 
A major perk would be... pardon my language, I've been studying engineering lately... non-linear range time.
An environment where you don't stand in your perfect Weaver/Isoc stance for the entire period. Fire at a target while lying on the ground, to simulate being knocked over - or fire from behind/underneath cover.

Do an oh-dark-thirty simulation. You could set 'em in a dark room/blindfold 'em for a few minutes, where they would learn to load, unload, and clear jams without seeing the gun. Once that's done, you load the guns yourself. Dummy and live rounds can be mixed. The gun can have an empty chamber or a loaded chamber. Hammer forwards or back - make it as random as possible. The shooting position should be lit up so that they're blinded at first. They have to snatch the gun off a table and shoot the target 'till the gun runs dry. Have 'innocents' in the area - including Rover. Extra points are lost if you shoot Rover. :cool:

This target should be close. Fifteen yards or less. Ten would be good.
The dummy rounds help to give this a worst-case-scenario feel - you bring the gun to bear and you ear an earsplitting 'click'.
You could repeat that scenario with tactical lights on the weapons/held with the weapons, and see if there's much improvement.

For CCW classes only, this wouldn't really be needed - but low-light shooting would be very good. Eyes accustomed to light or dark, you suddenly have them in darkness/light and facing an enemy.

Make every 'scenario' you use a surprise. They should know and employ the four rules, but shouldn't know the distance of the shooting until they're brought to the line.
 
Basic stuff.

The stuff I'd need to see in a basic CCW class:

1) Clear explanation of the state's use of force law. Be able to answer questions within a day, so have a legal resource available.

2) Explanation and application of the OODA loop. Get your students out of the fog.

3) Proper nomenclature and gun handling.

4) Basics of marksmanship. If this is a basic class, keep it basic.

5) Basic ideas and considerations for concealment. Clothing and equipment choices.

6) Malfunction drills. If you need a gun, your day is already very unlucky and may get worse.

7) moving off the line of force and getting to cover. A shooting isn't a heavyweight boxing match, don't stand there and slug it out.

8) Shooting from cover.

9) shooting while moving

10) multiple targets. Most attacks take place in low light with multiple assailants. Train your students to shift front sight focus and stay alert after the initial shots.

Cover this stuff clearly and concisely and you'll be a few steps ahead of the CCW course my wife and I took a few years ago.
 
The stuff I'd need to see in a basic CCW class:

1) Clear explanation of the state's use of force law. Be able to answer questions within a day, so have a legal resource available.

2) Explanation and application of the OODA loop. Get your students out of the fog.

3) Proper nomenclature and gun handling.

4) Basics of marksmanship. If this is a basic class, keep it basic.

5) Basic ideas and considerations for concealment. Clothing and equipment choices.

6) Malfunction drills. If you need a gun, your day is already very unlucky and may get worse.

7) moving off the line of force and getting to cover. A shooting isn't a heavyweight boxing match, don't stand there and slug it out.

8) Shooting from cover.

9) shooting while moving

10) multiple targets. Most attacks take place in low light with multiple assailants. Train your students to shift front sight focus and stay alert after the initial shots.

Cover this stuff clearly and concisely and you'll be a few steps ahead of the CCW course my wife and I took a few years ago.

Additionally:

11) Shooting with one hand only.

12) Shooting with the weak hand.

13) Shooting with one hand while moving.

14) Checking for additional threats. Threat assessement. Pre-violence indicators.

15) How to handle the police. What to expect after an event. Lawyers in the area who are pro-self-defense and have a good record in defending clients.

16) Force on Force training is extremely important. Many uber-tac-ti-cal techniques fall apart under well done FoF training.

17) Shooting at moving targets.
 
Information to cover in a Handgun Course

YammyMonkey,
I have been teaching a Hunter Education Course and a ladies Handgun course for thirty five years. I am a NRA certified rifle and pistol Instructor. I normally teach one or two handgun courses each year.
Everything that has been suggested is great but there is no way you can cover everything in one course. Break up your course between new shooters, shooters with basic experience and shooters that are shooting regularly in competition and want to advance.
You can not mix these three types of shooters in one class. It has been tried many times and does not work. All three types are looking for something different.
It is really difficult to divide shooters up into groups. Normally men will all tell you they are experts. Women on the other hand are fairly honest about their experience level (in shooting, at least).
Since I don't charge for my classes I can be very selective. I only sign individuals up for an advanced class if I have observed him or her on the range.
Good luck, we need more instructors and more classes.
 
I agree with what Jim Reeves said. Basic pistol marksmanship usually means new shooters or people who need remedial training. You'll need to give them attention they need to succeed. In some cases, that may just get them on the paper.

The NRA Basic courses won't be very useful for intermediate or advanced shooters. Often, they're there for checking a box on a form...something to keep in mind.

By all means, though, become an NRA Certified Instructor. That gets you onto their website and some additional resources will become available to you. You can also use the NRA course as an introduction to a custom course that you've written. Maybe offer a three day deal or something where the NRA course is the "intro" and you get into the uber-tac-ti-cal stuff on the other days.
 
I don't know what state you're from, so I don't know how many hours are required for CCW training in your state.

In Ohio, it is 12 hours. 10 hrs classroom, 2 hrs range. We follow the outline of the NRA Basic Pistol Course. Most importantly, you will have a wide range of people in your class that come from the very experienced down to the never shot a gun before in your classes. You can't do the advanced moves, shooting, etc. with that type of mixture. Save that stuff for an advanced CCW class that they take later. Remember, they are there to fulfill their needs in obtaining their permits/licenses. And you are there to make sure they are clear on BASIC pistol shooting. Safety first and foremost!

Keep the atmosphere of the class fun, energetic, entertaining and keep it flowing. Best done with tag team instructing. Find someone who will instruct with you, who's personality compliments your own, unless your a straight face kinda guy. You've got to keep it fun!! No one wants to listen to just one person talk for XX amount of hours. And you can work off each other. Also, don't single people out in the class. Keep everyone equal. Don't try to cater to the women, because that will make them feel singled out and embarrassed. Realize that many of the women in your classes are inexperienced, will need additional help during range time, but don't make a specticle out of their inexperience.

I have a gun rights attorney come in during the day and do a 2 hour law portion of our CCW laws. We always get rave reviews from our students on his informative talk. And, on the upside, it keeps our butts out of trouble, as we as instructors can not interupt the law, we may only state it.

We put together a decent packet of information for each student. We always include Jeff Cooper's Color Codes of Awareness, and we talk about mindset. Always stress condition yellow. The more classes we do together, the more we get into mindset. You're the experienced CCW'er here and they want to know about your experiences. I've made up an info sheet that lists different websites for them, including holster sites, forums, 2nd Amendment groups, Buckeye Firearms info of course, NRA sites, etc., state Senators and Reps. contact info, etc. I'm biased, but I think every instructor should be involved with a 2nd Amendments rights organization, and keep trying to improve your states laws, unless you're in Vermont!

We do a top notch class! As quick as we finish one, we're filling up the next months and the following months after that classes, because this class of students just went and spread the word. That's the biggest compliment an instructor can get, is to have their students send you referrals. If you're getting referrals, you know you're doing something right!!

Most of all....,you have to have fun with it! If you're having fun, the class will see that and they will have fun too. Good luck! I love instructing CCW classes!:D
 
What to teach

I think the suggestions given are great, just a few things to add, don't assume everyone taking your class has a extended knowledge of the subject. When I took my CCW class, I know for sure there were people who didn't take the time to educate themselves prior to taking the class, they were lost and didn't have a clue (and too embarrassed to ask any questions). Maybe have a pre-course reading of say Chris Byrd's Concealed Handgun Manual, I have seen courses that use that book. I think it is safe to say that the more educated the students are prior to the class the more they can learn from a well qualified instructor.
Also pack as much information into the course as possible, the CCW course I took was real short and lacked "meat" and the information was presented in a boring manner.
Also you could teach requirements for a non-resident permit, depending on where you live. Utah or Florida.
Good Luck!
 
There's no real hour requirements in CO as long as you satisfy one of the general training requirements which would be a basic pistol class, being active duty or discharged within 3 years (10 w/pistol qual) etc...

Thanks for the ideas & info. Definitely agree with separating the skill levels of the students into different classes and/or teaching the basic level class with the expectation that it is just that, basic. I'm hoping to be able to host some of the traveling classes from reputable instructors once things get up & running. In all honesty, part of the reason I want to get into teaching is so I can make some extra money to get better training for myself & pass that info on to others.

Also like the idea of a suggested reading/online resource list. I'd like to send that out as part of a registration packet so people have a baseline of info & a source of info on good things to bring to class. A lot of new & not so new shooters get sucked into the ad copy & if I can help steer them away from the worthless stuff & toward good info (political & otherwise) & gear maybe it'll help them pony up the $ for more ammo &/or training (I know, I know, but I can hope & dream right?). I've been thinking about offering the class for maybe $100 with the option of paying $125 & getting an annual NRA or GOA/ State Org mambership. That way the student gets a discounted membership & the RKBA groups get more $ & membership numbers.

I'm going to start trying to find someone to do a legal section since that seems to be where there is so much bad info out there and I don't want to mis-interpret the law since I'm not a lawyer.

My main concerns are getting the concept of a survival mindset/condition yellow approach to life along with an emphasis on spending money & time on training & practice vs. a new shiny piece of kit or worrying about whether the 230gr wunderthunder will stop better than the 115gr felonslayer. You can get quite a few good classes in for the price of one tricked out 1911 or AR, but getting people to do it is hard.

Keep the ideas coming.
 
I've been teaching CCW for a little while now. (got your PM).

CCW is a tough class to teach, that is the first major realization that you need to come to terms with. You can have a class where a little old lady who has never touched a gun before is sitting next to a guy who just got back from his 3rd tour in Iraq.

First and foremost, meet your state requirements. And know your state law. There are some Utah instructors that I would love to punch in the face. There are many insturctors who pass on false information.

If somebody asks you a law question that you don't know the answer to, don't guess. Tell them that you will look it up and get back to them. Or refer them to somebody who would be able to answer it.

Don't be macho. Don't play the tough guy. Using the two extremes I noted above, it will scare granny, and annoy the actual tough guy. Just be yourself.

I don't worry too much about the complexities of shooting, or any sort of advanced tactics. Some of the advice in this thread, no offense to the posters who said it, would frankly be impossible to teach in a basic CCW class. Or impossible to administer.

I have a friend, also a CCW instructor, who does a class that is above and beyond the state requirements. It is 4 times as long as neccesary, covers some hard core stuff, and obviously costs a lot more. I teach about 20X the number of people he does. So know your market.

Frankly, I don't worry too much about shooting. I know that sounds counter intuitive. But I can teach anybody to shoot. I can't make them smart. CCW should be 99% using your brain, and 1% using your gun.

I'm a big fan of using simulators or role playing over square range time. This is a review of one of my classes: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=237474

I'm a big believer in training as realistically as possible, but you need to keep it in context of what you can accomplish in a basic CCW class. I would rather set the bar realistic, and accomplish the goals, and have to students going away feeling like they reached some goals, than set the goal too high for beginners and have them crash and burn, and come away feeling stupid.

For live fire time, never over extend yourself. Make sure you have enough experienced help at the line to watch for stupidity. Never underestimate how stupid somebody can be. Especially the student who during the class likes to let everyone know how good he is at shooting. The closest I've ever come to getting shot on accident was by a former Army Ranger (supposedly) gun expert.

You specifically asked me about places to teach, approach every local range and store in your area, and see who teaches their CCW classes. You may luck into one that doesn't have anyone. The best way to find people to teach is from stores. They're going there for gun info, and the topic comes up all the time. Sometimes local churchs can provide a class room to use, so check with your local clergy. I've taught at ranges, gunstores, churches, some oddball office type rooms, and in people's houses. I hate teaching in homes, but will do it if somebody puts together a group and wants to host it out of there house. Don't do it if possible, because you can't control the environment or the distractions. NEVER do it in your own house. It removes the veneer of professionalism, and it makes your wife mad. :p

The most important thing you can do is get the person to start thinking. You're not going to turn them into an expert gunslinger in a matter of hours. Mindset is way more important, and if you can get their mind going in the right direction, you've won.

On a different note, your success as an instructor will be based upon your reputation. The better your reputation, the more places you will be able to teach, and the more students will seek you out specifically. Word of mouth rules. Because of the reputation for quality classes that I had built up, I was able to pick up what is probably the most lucrative teaching location in the state. And I've done a really good job for them for the last year, and the numbers that I teach keep going up.

The only way you get a good reputation is by teaching a good class. So do your homework. Prepare. Work on your presentation. (everyone hates a dull instructor, make it interesting).

That's all I can think of right now.
 
I hate teaching in homes, but will do it if somebody puts together a group and wants to host it out of there house. Don't do it if possible, because you can't control the environment or the distractions. NEVER do it in your own house. It removes the veneer of professionalism, and it makes your wife mad.

I have to totally disagree with you on this! :uhoh: If you are teaching at someone elses house, then you need to set the guidlelines prior to the class.

And as far as doing it at your home, that's generally where I hold my classes. I have complete control, we present an extremely professional class, yet in a relaxed atmosphere. You couldn't ask for better scenery to look at...,trees, ravines, river, etc. And 2 home cooked meals prepared ahead of time. When it comes time for range session, we walk out my back door, down to MY range. It's a one stop shop! All the students thank me for opening up my home to them for the day! We must be doing something right...,as quick as we finish one class, we easily fill at least the next two.

And since I am the wife, there's no one to make mad!:p
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top