22-rimfire
Member
The only way that is quick to "convert an Anti-" is to have them experience first hand some of the violent crime that plagues our cities.
Converting ANTIS
- Thread starter PILMAN
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Zundfolge
Member
No, that's just as likely to convert a fence sitter into an anti, or harden an antis resolve.
Sniper X
Member
I do it all the time
But they aren't hardcorps Antigunners. Mostly just someone who never had or wanted a gun till I took them out shooting and they saw how fun, and safe, shooting can be. Most all bought a gun shortly after either taking one of my classes or just going shooting or hunting with me. Now the total hardcorps antis who seem to be that way because it fits their political viewpoints...you'll be able to convert those types to republicans before to gun epople. Like Gwenith Paltro, she makes it a POINT to voice her gun hatred weither in a movie or on a TV show...those types youll never convert.
But they aren't hardcorps Antigunners. Mostly just someone who never had or wanted a gun till I took them out shooting and they saw how fun, and safe, shooting can be. Most all bought a gun shortly after either taking one of my classes or just going shooting or hunting with me. Now the total hardcorps antis who seem to be that way because it fits their political viewpoints...you'll be able to convert those types to republicans before to gun epople. Like Gwenith Paltro, she makes it a POINT to voice her gun hatred weither in a movie or on a TV show...those types youll never convert.
Dave A
Member
Antis and violence vs force
Many people see no differnce between violence and force and assume that gun owners are potentialy violent. An attack violates (violence) and force, lethal or otherwise, halts the attack. Those who believe that to respond to an attack with force causes the defender to descend to the level of the attacker fail to grasp this distinction.
Many people see no differnce between violence and force and assume that gun owners are potentialy violent. An attack violates (violence) and force, lethal or otherwise, halts the attack. Those who believe that to respond to an attack with force causes the defender to descend to the level of the attacker fail to grasp this distinction.
imprezagm4
Member
Anti's are tough to crack. They bury their heads in the sand and refuse to see the light.
I'm lucky enough, that my church youth group is 100% Pro gun! In fact, the college pastor owns 6 or 7 firearms, and we are getting a shooting day together sometime soon. I love Oregon!
One of our neighbors came over last month and there was a scope sitting on a table in the living room. You should have seen her, she about did a backflip and the following conversation started:
Her: What is THAT for!
Me: My .22
Her: A GUN!?!?!?!?!
Me: Yes
Her: Well, let me know if you are depressed *laughing*
Me: Ok...
A California transplant (like myself) She obviously knew that only trained assasins use scopes. I have been found out!
I have had luck converting my mother however, she isn't pro exactly... but she is far less anti.
I'm lucky enough, that my church youth group is 100% Pro gun! In fact, the college pastor owns 6 or 7 firearms, and we are getting a shooting day together sometime soon. I love Oregon!
One of our neighbors came over last month and there was a scope sitting on a table in the living room. You should have seen her, she about did a backflip and the following conversation started:
Her: What is THAT for!
Me: My .22
Her: A GUN!?!?!?!?!
Me: Yes
Her: Well, let me know if you are depressed *laughing*
Me: Ok...
A California transplant (like myself) She obviously knew that only trained assasins use scopes. I have been found out!
I have had luck converting my mother however, she isn't pro exactly... but she is far less anti.
Neo-Luddite
Member
Anti is a common default position adopted at some point to get a goodie or to get some action from a hippie chickm in college. Same with vegitarisanism
Take the anti shooting--this is the fix.
Take the anti shooting--this is the fix.
pistolman1974
Member
I've converted a couple of anti's. the very first one was my mother when MO CCW came up to vote she was very anti. I always talked about the need to defend yourself. So to make a long story short, one day she is in a park thats fairly big it occures to her that her cell phone didn't work and she was by herself (even with the dogs) she thought to herself "what if someone wanted to hurt me out here? "I would be alone!" Shortly thereafter we went gun shopping and she picked up a nice new S&W m&p 9mm. She also plans to shoot I.D.P.A with me this year.
The next person is a friend of mine. I never really spoke about carrying but I did tell her that I collected guns. Anyway most of my conversation was always about being aware of whats going on around you.
So one day in my car and for some reason she told me that she was scared of guns. I asked her if she ever handled one as said no. I asked her if she wanted to and she said sure. So later we arranged to meet at her house so she could see a hand gun. by the time I explained how it worked and so fourth and tought her some basic safety she said "thanks" I see I don't have any reason to be afraid of them. I told her when you are ready to actually shoot at the range with me let me know. "ok i'll do that." she says. as of yet we haven't gone.
The third is my aunt. I can't say i've converted her but a good reality check is always in order. In short she said she was against concealed carry because she feared that there would be shootouts aomong the carries for stupid reasons and blood would be runniing through the streets at an all time high. It will be like the wild west! I looked at her and said. Do you realize that concealed carry has been legal in MO for 3 years now?.....seen any blood or wild west shootouts in the streets lately?
Generaly one strategy I use is not to be the one who brings guns up, let them do it and interject accurate information as needed.
The next person is a friend of mine. I never really spoke about carrying but I did tell her that I collected guns. Anyway most of my conversation was always about being aware of whats going on around you.
So one day in my car and for some reason she told me that she was scared of guns. I asked her if she ever handled one as said no. I asked her if she wanted to and she said sure. So later we arranged to meet at her house so she could see a hand gun. by the time I explained how it worked and so fourth and tought her some basic safety she said "thanks" I see I don't have any reason to be afraid of them. I told her when you are ready to actually shoot at the range with me let me know. "ok i'll do that." she says. as of yet we haven't gone.
The third is my aunt. I can't say i've converted her but a good reality check is always in order. In short she said she was against concealed carry because she feared that there would be shootouts aomong the carries for stupid reasons and blood would be runniing through the streets at an all time high. It will be like the wild west! I looked at her and said. Do you realize that concealed carry has been legal in MO for 3 years now?.....seen any blood or wild west shootouts in the streets lately?
Generaly one strategy I use is not to be the one who brings guns up, let them do it and interject accurate information as needed.
If a gun in the home is more likely to kill you than someone else, then as you increase the number of guns in the home it would be even more likely, but in fact I suspect the opposite is really the truth.
Where are all the "Gun Collector Shot With His Own Weapon" stories?
Where are all the "Gun Collector Shot With His Own Weapon" stories?
I find most anti's are people that don't really care alot either way but have been influenced by the media and movie to think guns are bad. If you can remain calm and rational you can discredit what they're heard and take them shooting. Then its easy.
Zundfolge
Member
If you don't think about it and actually look at the facts, I can see how one can come to the conclusion that "if there are more guns available to the public there will be more guns used for violence".
It seems like such common sense that it seems foolish to even question it.
Other such bits of common sense that seem foolish to question are as follows:
It seems like such common sense that it seems foolish to even question it.
Other such bits of common sense that seem foolish to question are as follows:
- The world is flat. (and the center of the universe, and the sun went 'round it)
- If I drop this 4" cannon ball and this .25" ball bearing at the same time, of course the cannon ball will hit the ground first.
- Traveling faster than a mile a minute will cause you to die because it will suck all the air out of your lungs.
- Traveling faster than the speed of sound is impossible (and would kill you)
- Black people have tails.
- The moon is made of green cheese.
- There are four elements; Earth, Air, Fire and Water.
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
What Evil Do They Plan?
Gun control has been the gateway to genocide repeatedly during the last 100 years.
Your Japanese correspondent should know that when they disarmed (removed all firearms from) the population many years ago, they triggered one of the bloodiest periods of sword violence ever seen there.
When I hear someone rant on that only the government/police should have arms, I have to ask "do you completely trust your government?" If they continue to rant in that fashion, I then have to ask, "what horror is it you plan to do to us, that you are so afraid we will resist?"
What is evidently meant by that remark is that Americans are not elite enough and enlightened enough -- for which read "they don't think like we do."
True enough. That's why we have a constitution and they don't. That's why we have a Bill of Rights and they don't.
Americans are too stupid to be trusted with free speech. Why does an individual NEED free speech? That should be reserved to people who own printing presses and TV transmitters -- preferably the government.
Disarming populations has given us more sweeping mass murders than any other single factor.
So, clearly, the SMART thing to do is disarm ourselves.
Gun control has been the gateway to genocide repeatedly during the last 100 years.
Your Japanese correspondent should know that when they disarmed (removed all firearms from) the population many years ago, they triggered one of the bloodiest periods of sword violence ever seen there.
When I hear someone rant on that only the government/police should have arms, I have to ask "do you completely trust your government?" If they continue to rant in that fashion, I then have to ask, "what horror is it you plan to do to us, that you are so afraid we will resist?"
Yeah. There are way too many technical innovations and way too much science coming out of the US. Only stupid people could possibly churn out as much science and technology as the US does.
What is evidently meant by that remark is that Americans are not elite enough and enlightened enough -- for which read "they don't think like we do."
True enough. That's why we have a constitution and they don't. That's why we have a Bill of Rights and they don't.
Americans are too stupid to be trusted with free speech. Why does an individual NEED free speech? That should be reserved to people who own printing presses and TV transmitters -- preferably the government.
Disarming populations has given us more sweeping mass murders than any other single factor.
So, clearly, the SMART thing to do is disarm ourselves.
Zundfolge
Member
That is absolutely beautiful. I will definitely use that one.
TrapperReady
Member
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2003
- Messages
- 2,732
Here's my $0.02 on the issue...
Most of the true antis I encounter are flat-out ignorant about guns. Most have very, very limited exposure to them and almost uniformly have not shot a firearm. My best successes have been to point out (very calmly) their lack of knowledge and familiarity. I then stress the "sport" side of things (ie. the least threatening) and then offer to take them to the range sometime.
This is a telling point in the coversation. If they are dead-set, dig-in-the-heels, opposed to the idea of ever touching a real gun, then I let it drop. If there is even a glimmer of hope, I try to get them to set up a time to go.
If they go, I make sure that it's a two-stage process. First, they stop by my house and I show them the firearm they will use at the range. I go over the Four Rules. I stress safety, safety and more safety. I make sure they know that they will be wearing eye and ear protection. I talk with them about the range rules and how things will operate. That way, they are more prepared and less anxious when we actually go to the range. It also shows them that gun owners aren't reckless nutjobs.
When we go to the range, I don't shoot while they're shooting. I make sure that we shoot reactive targets (usually clays -- partly because I'm primarily a shotgunner and partly because EVERYONE is excited when they break their first clay). Throughout the time spent at the range, I stress safety and in the downtime I'll discuss the social aspects of shooting and the challenge of different disciplines. I make sure to pay for everything and when we're done, I make sure to leave them with an open invitation to do it again.
This approach has worked quite well a number of times. However, like I said earlier, if they are truly entrenched in their unwillingness to try it, then I leave them alone and move on. I've found out the hard way that there are too many statistics from both sides to ever reach someone if their minds are already made up.
Most of the true antis I encounter are flat-out ignorant about guns. Most have very, very limited exposure to them and almost uniformly have not shot a firearm. My best successes have been to point out (very calmly) their lack of knowledge and familiarity. I then stress the "sport" side of things (ie. the least threatening) and then offer to take them to the range sometime.
This is a telling point in the coversation. If they are dead-set, dig-in-the-heels, opposed to the idea of ever touching a real gun, then I let it drop. If there is even a glimmer of hope, I try to get them to set up a time to go.
If they go, I make sure that it's a two-stage process. First, they stop by my house and I show them the firearm they will use at the range. I go over the Four Rules. I stress safety, safety and more safety. I make sure they know that they will be wearing eye and ear protection. I talk with them about the range rules and how things will operate. That way, they are more prepared and less anxious when we actually go to the range. It also shows them that gun owners aren't reckless nutjobs.
When we go to the range, I don't shoot while they're shooting. I make sure that we shoot reactive targets (usually clays -- partly because I'm primarily a shotgunner and partly because EVERYONE is excited when they break their first clay). Throughout the time spent at the range, I stress safety and in the downtime I'll discuss the social aspects of shooting and the challenge of different disciplines. I make sure to pay for everything and when we're done, I make sure to leave them with an open invitation to do it again.
This approach has worked quite well a number of times. However, like I said earlier, if they are truly entrenched in their unwillingness to try it, then I leave them alone and move on. I've found out the hard way that there are too many statistics from both sides to ever reach someone if their minds are already made up.
COnverting anti's
Why bother? This has NOT been effective in 30 years now and a complete waste of time...
There's a LOT more to do then this nonsense... and to date I've only read one original idea in this WHOLE web site to date...
DOn't you people get it?? These conversations are the same old same old horses**T that's deamn near lost us our 2nd rights and it's only going to get worse... The NRA is worthless, most shooters can't be bothered to do much to save their rights and the Democrats are DAMN well going to do great in the next election (because most shooters can't be bothered to vote and most repulicans no longer are standing behind us)... so we're screwed..
Most of all, the younger generations in the population centerse BELIEVE what they see on TV and films. A LOT of these kids think "Guns are bad" and the Palastians are good, etc etc etc straight 100% liberal throughts.... and where did they come from? TV and FIlm...
Glad I won't be around to see the 2nd go, and it will.... it's only a mater of time... and please, don't bother with any talk of an uprising.. if these morons can't get off their duffs to protect their rights by voting, you think anyone's going to bother?? P.S. The NRA is worthless as it exists.
Why bother? This has NOT been effective in 30 years now and a complete waste of time...
There's a LOT more to do then this nonsense... and to date I've only read one original idea in this WHOLE web site to date...
DOn't you people get it?? These conversations are the same old same old horses**T that's deamn near lost us our 2nd rights and it's only going to get worse... The NRA is worthless, most shooters can't be bothered to do much to save their rights and the Democrats are DAMN well going to do great in the next election (because most shooters can't be bothered to vote and most repulicans no longer are standing behind us)... so we're screwed..
Most of all, the younger generations in the population centerse BELIEVE what they see on TV and films. A LOT of these kids think "Guns are bad" and the Palastians are good, etc etc etc straight 100% liberal throughts.... and where did they come from? TV and FIlm...
Glad I won't be around to see the 2nd go, and it will.... it's only a mater of time... and please, don't bother with any talk of an uprising.. if these morons can't get off their duffs to protect their rights by voting, you think anyone's going to bother?? P.S. The NRA is worthless as it exists.
thexrayboy
Member
First we must define what an anti (gun) person really is.
True anti 2A people know all the facts we know. They understand what the true intent of the founding fathers was in regards to arms. It's just that they think they are smarter and better than a bunch of old dead white men. The 2A is an impediment to their goal, domination of the masses.
Others who profess to be anti gun are in fact merely ignorant. These persons can be educated, reasoned with and perhaps converted. Many of these will never actually accept personal responsibility for their own defense by owning a gun but they will not actively campaign to take that right away from others.
This group, while perhaps pitiable at times, is not a threat to our freedoms.
The first group however pose a serious threat to free people everywhere. For these types only two methods exist to deal with their insanity, confinement or conversion....of the einsteinian type if necessary.
True anti 2A people know all the facts we know. They understand what the true intent of the founding fathers was in regards to arms. It's just that they think they are smarter and better than a bunch of old dead white men. The 2A is an impediment to their goal, domination of the masses.
Others who profess to be anti gun are in fact merely ignorant. These persons can be educated, reasoned with and perhaps converted. Many of these will never actually accept personal responsibility for their own defense by owning a gun but they will not actively campaign to take that right away from others.
This group, while perhaps pitiable at times, is not a threat to our freedoms.
The first group however pose a serious threat to free people everywhere. For these types only two methods exist to deal with their insanity, confinement or conversion....of the einsteinian type if necessary.
treebeard
Member
I have tried several times but usually I get the reasoning along these lines, "guns kill people so I don't like guns." I try to tell them that someone has to be behing the trigger for the gun to fire, but then they say, "see I told you so." The logic that they exhibit goes far beyond anything I can comprehend. Doh!!:banghead:
the pistolero
Member
Do you have anything to offer besides a pompous attitude and finger-pointing?
As Art said in the now-closed "Wake Up Again" thread, "Don't insult this group." And I must second that. Please extend us that basic courtesy. You might think trying to convert antis is a waste of time, but there are those of us that don't, and we have good reason for that -- we need all the people we can get, and belittling those who are trying to sway people to our side does absolutely no good at all.SoCalShooter
Member
if thats the case then why do we have a well trained military of Americans and a usually responsible police force? All Americans? Huh?
ZeSpectre
Member
You might be right, you might be wrong. I can tell you for sure what happens if we "go quietly".
Every generation has it's people who swing this way and that. This isn't a situation where one side or the other really "wins", this topic is (and probably always will be) an ongoing struggle that must be addressed at all times on all levels.
Trying for every person we can in a grass roots effort is important, you never know when you might have just prevented the next Brady.
Zundfolge
Member
If that was true then we'd have English/Australian style gun control already.
In the early 70s the desire to ban handguns was at an all time high ... by the 90s they had given up on that and instead went after a more esoteric type of gun, the so-called "Assault Weapon", and did they ban 'em for good? nope ... and they lost the support for gun control needed to renew that feeble ban.
Now they're going after an even more esoteric type if gun; the .50BMG (and that attack is not going so well either).
The antis (especially the hard core ones) aren't giving up, but their numbers aren't exactly growing either and ours are.
I know more fence sitters that have gone to the pro-gun side than the anti-gun side. Its the fence sitters we need to work on, and one way we do that is to take on the antis in front of the fence sitters.
30 years ago, how many states had CCW? How many of those were "Shall Issue"? How many had "Castle Doctrine" laws? How many people back then would have believed that support of gun control might end up costing the Democrats the presidential election, and not just any candidate but a vice president of one of the most popular presidents of the 20th century?
Freedspeak
Member
Interesting, most of the Brits I have met (all within the past 5 years) have become major shooters at the ranges, once they realised they could rent or own guns depending on their immigration status!
Green Lantern
Member
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2006
- Messages
- 1,665
Don't get down, that's 3 more than I'VE managed to return to the "light side."
Your Jewish friend *might* get to thinking more rationally if you asked her why she wore a seatbelt, or had a first aid kit, or had a fire extinguisher, or took vitamins...et cetera, if "God is supposed to take care of that."
MatthewVanitas
Member
I've got tons of threads up on this, so I'll just summarize briefly:
UT Austin has a campus shooting range. Last semester we had 500 unique visitors, and easily half of them had never touched a gun before.
I worked about (20) 3hr shifts there last semester, and met _three_ students who came with friends and didn't want to shoot (not counting the half dozen who said they didn't want to shoot, but changed their minds midway through).
I have had exactly zero students who tried shooting and then said "man, this stuff is terrible!" Visitors have included students from a dozen different countries, surely plenty of Democratic voters, and plenty of kids with dreadlocks/tats/piercings/patchouli-scent etc.
So, that's 250 people getting their first gun exposure, generally positive. Now when they're amongst their friends, they can be the one to say "yeah, I tried shooting once. It was pretty easy really, you just don't do dumb things."
If we are in the right, we have everything to gain and nothing to lose by simply educating people about firearm safety. It is ten times easier to do this by personal experience than by lecture. Allow someone to witness the facts, with no preaching or propaganda, and let them arrive at their own conclusion.
Here are some pics from a 50-woman class last semester: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=229403&highlight=UTRPC
-MV
UT Austin has a campus shooting range. Last semester we had 500 unique visitors, and easily half of them had never touched a gun before.
I worked about (20) 3hr shifts there last semester, and met _three_ students who came with friends and didn't want to shoot (not counting the half dozen who said they didn't want to shoot, but changed their minds midway through).
I have had exactly zero students who tried shooting and then said "man, this stuff is terrible!" Visitors have included students from a dozen different countries, surely plenty of Democratic voters, and plenty of kids with dreadlocks/tats/piercings/patchouli-scent etc.
So, that's 250 people getting their first gun exposure, generally positive. Now when they're amongst their friends, they can be the one to say "yeah, I tried shooting once. It was pretty easy really, you just don't do dumb things."
If we are in the right, we have everything to gain and nothing to lose by simply educating people about firearm safety. It is ten times easier to do this by personal experience than by lecture. Allow someone to witness the facts, with no preaching or propaganda, and let them arrive at their own conclusion.
Here are some pics from a 50-woman class last semester: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=229403&highlight=UTRPC
-MV
MatthewVanitas
Member
(image editing issues, stand by)
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