Ballistic gelatin test results - .41 Magnum

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Brass Fetcher

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I just finished the .41 Magnum test and here are the results :

Firearm - S&W 57 .41 Magnum revolver with 4" barrel length

Cartridge - Remington 210gr Soft Point SWC (very old looking box - says 'Index 1041' on it)

Block Calibration - 11.8cm @ 605 ft/sec

Shot 1 - Impacted at 1308 ft/sec, penetrated 16.0" in the gelatin block and then ~ 4" in a polyester bullet arresting box. Recovered diameter was 0.491". Track is outlined in yellow on the first picture.

Shots 2 & 3 were fired over a chronograph skyscreen, but no reasonable velocity measurements were produced (the screen flashed something like '145 ft/sec' on one of the shots). We had gusting winds of at least 15 mile/hour, so no more attempts were made to utilize the chronograph. For what it is worth, I did not notice any 'soft' or 'hard' shots - the recoil felt consistent.

Shot 2 - Penetrated 16.0" in the gelatin block and then ~ 4" in a polyester bullet arresting box. Recovered diameter was 0.484".

Shot 3 - Penetrated 16.0" in the gelatin block and then ~ 14" in a polyester bullet arresting box. Recovered diameter was 0.471".

Shot 4 - Penetrated 16.0" in the gelatin block and then ~ 14" in a polyester bullet arresting box. Recovered diameter was 0.501".

Shot 5 - Penetrated 16.0" in the gelatin block and then ~ 12.5" in a polyester bullet arresting box. Recovered diameter was 0.499".
 

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These were lead 210 grain semi-wadcutter bullets, not hollow points. They were intended for police use, and the load was reduced. The penetration data is interesting, and substantial expansion should not be expected.
 
It looks like there's a lot of disruption/ wounding of the gelatin compared to the lack of expansion of the projectile. Is this the type of wounding/ wound channel that can be expected in a moderate to fast moving slug of this design?
 
I would like to do a 10mm test - the problem of course is getting the gun and the ammunition. I can make gelatin 'cheaply' because I am setup to do it... buying a new gun is out of the question, just to test in gelatin. :eek:

@Feanaro : A good JHP would be very nice in this caliber. I think that a fairly good comparison may be made between the performance of the .357 Magnum and this cartridge - although the .41 Magnum will make a considerably larger hole, the penetrations should be close.

I would say that this track is typical of such a minimum expansion bullet - the 'cracking' that is visible in the gelatin block is a function mostly of the diameter of the bullet passing through and also it's velocity at that depth in the block. Velocity and bullet diameter work hand-in-hand too: because the bullet was a smallish diameter, it experienced a lot less drag than it would have if it expanded like a proper JHP. As such, it was at a good deal higher velocity at all points along its penetration in the block - giving it that impressive cracking that is in the pictures. I have a .357SIG test tentatively planned for early next week, so if that goes through, I will post the pictures of the bullet tracks and they should be close to what happened here - you should see a massive cracking at the beginning of the penetration (velocity) and because of the lightweight bullets and high velocity (and the high drag that this causes), this cracking should be evident up until about the very end of the track - where the bullet comes to an abrupt halt.
 
It looks like there's a lot of disruption/ wounding of the gelatin compared to the lack of expansion of the projectile.

That's the remains of the "temporary wound cavity." It does not necessarily translate to tissue destruction in humans. Flesh is rather... sproingy, if you will.
 
It looks like there's a lot of disruption/ wounding of the gelatin compared to the lack of expansion of the projectile. Is this the type of wounding/ wound channel that can be expected in a moderate to fast moving slug of this design?

Yes. That's one of the reasons Keith type bullets (similar in shape to SWC) are popular for hunting. (Deep penetration but a blunt enough design to cause quite a "splash", if you will, in the game animal.)

Human tissue is elastic, but there's a limit. The worse the temporary cavity is, the less likely it'll be that it'll bounce back. Tissue stretches past the tearing point, cell walls rupture, blood vessels break, muscle fragments. It's the reason rifles are more effective than handguns despite smaller/lower mass projectiles. Also, remember that the ballistic gel is calibrated to mimic human tissue elasticity, I think. (If not, why do we bother with it?) It's not like shooting into, say, a block of clay, which can give exaggerated/misleading results.

On the other hand, most handgun cartridges don't have enough power to utilize that as a serious secondary wounding mechanism. Hot loaded magnums may well be an exception to this, though.
 
Temporary crush cavity surely plays a role. I've read some smart folks that think otherwise, but with my CSE (Common Sense Engineering) degree (30 years of shooting) I'll respectfully disagree.

Take for example a .32 ACP FMJ which is likely to penetrate and exit a human in a straight on torso shot . . . compare it to a .308/7.62 NATO FMJ round which will also penetrate and exit . . . also for the most part not deformed.

If temporary cavity has no real effect, the .32 ACP is then equal to a .308. Preposterous? Yep. . . so is discounting the effects of velocity and temporary crush cavities in ballistic gelatin.
 
People take the "all handguns suck" mantra to extremes. I was once told by an internet commando type that a .223 that fragments is better than a .50BMG that just "pokes a hole". :uhoh:

You're right. If "temporary cavity" (trauma inflicted by hydrokinetic shockwaves traveling through the body) is not a wounding mechanism, shooting someone with a .30 Luger FMJ would be the same as a .300 Win Mag FMJ.
 
You have to have a substantial difference in velocity to gain much if any hydrokinetic effect. We are talking handguns here, and the necessary velocity isn't there. Rather then compare a .32 Luger (handgun) vs. a .300 Win. Magnum (rifle) try a .32 Luger (pistol) vs. a .32-20 (in a revolver). The temporary cavitation doesn't happen - at least enough to make a difference.

I have discussed handgun wounds with emergency room doctors, and been told that while the can tell the difference in wound channels made by small vs. large bullets, they can't tell exactly what made the wound until (or unless) they revover a bullet.
 
Well given EK's own experiences and the experiences of others using this style of SWC, plus the ballistic evidence, I would be reluctant to discount the temporary cavity/shockwave/whatever impact of a large caliber slug with a flat face hitting the target at a high rate of speed. Whatever the mechanism involved, big bore SWC's are proven killers.
 
The wounding effect of the temporary cavity is negligible at diameters less than 4-5". Whether or not a related pressure wave phenomenon can contribute to incapacitation (as compared to wounding) remains to be seen. A high powered rifle like a .308 can create a temporary cavity the size of a beach ball, and is in an entirely different league from most pistols.
 
A flat bullet cuts tissue more efficiently than a roundnose, so that might explain it. Or it could have some as yet unquantified effect on "stopping power."
 
The idea that the shape of the bullet creates more outward motion of the tissue along the periphary of the bullet track is very true. Some people call this radial motion 'hydrostatic shock' and many other names - to each their own. The more blunt the bullet, the greater the velocity of the tissue moving away from the bullet - thereby the chance of damaging this tissue is increased.

I would prefer an expanded bullet, a wadcutter and then an SWC in that order, expanded bullets being the best - assuming that proper penetration depths were reached in all cases.
 
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