Heavy DA trigger for CCW?

I definitely prefer a lighter double action pull on my CHL snubby. You can get lighter Wolff springs for most S+W revolvers. That usually gets it down to 8 1/2 pounds or so.

I've only shot 150 or so rounds with my new 642 (50 w/ Crimson Trace grips) - at this point I'd feel much more capable with a cocked & locked SA or lighter DAO-type 9mm (M&P/Glock/etc.). At 7-10 yards I'm on paper and occasionally grouping well, but once adrenaline kicks in, I dunno. Extremely lightweight revolver and very heavy trigger = tons of practice needed.

I'm getting on the waiting list for Grant Cunningham's Super Action Job for the 642.

It took me 500+ rounds to get the trigger worked in on both my 686 and 642. I just added the CTC LG-405 today and had 5 shot groups within 1" @ 5 yards, 7 yards were 2" or less. keep working the trigger and it will losten up nicely. Also, after 150 rounds today the palm of my shooting hand almost blistered.

I would hope that those seeking a substantially lighter double-action trigger pull might wonder, "why is it the manufacturers put in such heavy springs?"

Quite frankly, they do it to insure that no matter what shape the revolver is in, or what kind of cartridges or primers are being used - no matter what - the gun will go BANG! when it's necessary. You can remove that built insurance by installing lighter springs, but if you get into serious trouble you may wish you didn't.

The other solution is to (1) learn double-action shooting techniques (there is a right and wrong way to do this), and (2) after you understand the techniques - practice.

To start with, you don’t have to keep the sights precisely aligned during the entire trigger stroke, just toward the end of it when the hammer is about too fall. You need to take a high, firm grip and to do so your fingers should wrap around the stocks with the tips of the fingers at least to the middle of the opposite side.

Only wusses use light springs…

With my 642 being carried in my pocket and no safety on this gun, I would worry about losening the trigger much on it. With adrenaline going, you do not want that baby going off as you draw it from your pocket.

When I was carrying my 92FS IWB, I did not worry about a light trigger pull. Since it had a safety, I just trained myself to draw the gun and flick the safety at the same time. I constantly practiced that way and it became automatic.

Without a safety or anyway to prevent the trigger from accidently being pulled, the 642 can easily become a weapon that is more dangerous to you and yours rather than the bad guys.

Boy, is you green...

I'm actually inclined to think that it is more liability related than strictly to ensure that the gun goes off. It's less likely that will "accidently" pull a 12 pound trigger than a 5 pound trigger.

Click to expand...

Ten to twelve pound double action double-action trigger pulls have been standard since before lawyers. During the pre-World War Two years 14 pounds wasn't unusual on revolvers intended for military use.

A 5-pound double-action trigger pull is unlikely to reliably bust caps.

Holydoc:

With my 642 being carried in my pocket and no safety on this gun, I would worry about losening the trigger much on it. With adrenaline going, you do not want that baby going off as you draw it from your pocket.

Click to expand...

This is my night for greenhorns...

Why for do you think that your little 642 doesn't have a safety? In this day and age??? Of course it does...

But it's not a manual safety - the kind where you flip a lever or push a botton. No way, it's a mechanical safety, inside the lockwork, that first rebounds the hammer bakwards off the firing pin, and then blocks it so it can't go forward until you pull the trigger again.

If you open the cylinder and look at the breechface you'll notice that the firing pin is back inside the frame, and there is no way you are going to get it to come out, short of pulling the trigger.

Now I'm not telling you this to invite some messing around with the springs - that can be a big mistake - but I don't want you worrying about the revolver going off in your pocket.

Smith & Wesson has been using rebounding hammers in their (so called) hammerless revolvers since 1887, and by now they've got they're ducks in a row.

Fluff,

I was not meaning to infer that the gun would go off in your pocket on its own. What I was saying was that it is possible to reach into your pocket to retrieve your pistol and while drawing have your finger fall naturally onto the trigger. Now if you are pumped full of adrenaline (i.e., someone coming at you with a knife) and reach in and this happens with a light trigger pull the gun could go off.

I would just recommend to anyone with a pocket revolver to leave the trigger pull at a respectful weight. When adrenaline is flowing, the trigger will be much easier to pull.

I carry a single action 1911...

If I want it to fire I will put my finger on the trigger.


Yes, I know about stressful conditions... I carried an Open bolt machinegun in a war zone off safe due to being cross dominate and the safety sometimes coming off on my gear. (I'd rather KNOW it was off than know it might be.)
As I had no problems with trigger control under fire I expect none.

I see no need for a heavy trigger pull. (Except heavy enough for reliable primer ignition.)

Holydoc:

Perhaps I misunderstood your point...

I am aware of a number of cases where an unexpected loud BANG! happened "back when..." low-cut OWB holsters that exposed the trigger guard and trigger were common and someone shot first, and drew second...

Pocket draw is another matter. Today's pocket holsters tend to cover the trigger guard, and at best, it is difficult to get one's finger on the trigger while the revolver is still confined within a pocket. In fact this situation caused some to actually cut off the front of the trigger guard to make it easier to get the finger on the trigger. This at best might seem hazardous, but I am unaware of any history concerning unintentional discharges that happened to owners using the modification.

The Granddaddy of present “hammerless” revolvers such as the S&W 642 was that company’s top-break Safety Hammerless model that was introduced in 1887, and made as late as 1940. It is interesting to note that in their advertising S&W specifically warned that the spring tensions not be reduced, and refused to do it at the factory for mostly the same reasons you stated. The trigger mechanism was designed in such a way as to allow the weight of pull to drop just before the gun fired, thereby sending a single to the shooter to get his or her sights aligned. Unlike today, where this style of revolver is only offered as snubbies, the older ones were cataloged with barrel lengths up to 6 inches. Obviously reasonably precise shooting could be done.

I added a heavier mainspring to improve the reliability of my CCW revolver. It's now at 12lbs and I am confident of two things:
It will ignite anything I put in it.
It won't go off until I want it to.
Lot's of dry firing with snap caps will strengthen that trigger finger and improve your shooting skills.
I shoot my P89 much more accurately than my snub, but I don't stuff my P89 in my pocket either!
I'm off now to dry fire my revolver, see you later!

I carry a S&W semi auto. Its DAO and fairly heavy. I confess I do not shoot it as well as a Sa type...I get by. I've thought about changing springs for a try, I just haven't gotten around to it.
Mark.

There really isn't any reason to significantly reduce the spring tension in a 642. IMO, ALL the new production models can be seriously improved by having the internals polished by a good smith. The idea isn't to lighten the trigger, the idea is to smooth it out and make it more consistent. I had this done on mine (642-2) and my groups tightened up considerably.

Get a set of snap-caps and practice propre trigger pull. When I got my M638 I was terrible hitting anything because it was the first a short barrel revolver I had ever shot and I was also a new shooter. I practiced with snap-caps for about a week and found out what I was doing wrong and corrected it. The added benefit was, the trigger was a lot smoother after over 500 pulls!! LOL

Fluff,

I think we are on the same page. I plan on practicing quite a bit with this little 642-2. I am hoping to become so use to it that it just becomes a natural thing to both carry it and shoot it. In order to do that I need to learn its limitations and mine.

I do appreciate the knowledge you bring to the table. In respect to safety measures with a gun, I consider myself quite proficient. As for the knowledge of does and don'ts on firing this new 642-2, I am as you say... a "greenhorn". Hopefully with the help of this forum and yourself, you guys can at least make me acceptable enough in the future to share a cold one with.

Take care and thank you for your help and history.

IMHO unless you are shooting a DA revolver for hunting or long range target or silouette forget the SA trigger pull, shoot it DA only. Over the first 1000 shots and some dry firing the trigger will smooth out and will continue to improve. Your trigger finger will learn the feel of DA over time. Don't muck with the springs. FRONT SIGHT! FRONT SIGHT!