Career as a BATFE agent?

bogie

All bureaucracies are essentially corrupt - after something reaches a certain unmanageable size, oversight no longer works, and you have situations where misuse is inevitable.

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I couldn’t agree more. This is true of Government and private entities alike.

I think that's what those old Dead White Guys wanted the authority decentralized among the different states - harder for an organization to reach critical bureaucratic inertial mass that way...

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That and they had an innate fear of big government getting too far into peoples lives. Judging from what we have today I’d say that their fears were more than justified!

(IMHO, if you insist on staying at the Ritz while travelling on the company/government dime, you should also fork over the cash for the same accomodations while you're on vacation, spending your own money.

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This doesn’t really apply to Government employees. We stay where we are told as the Government has contract prices. These are quite a bit lower than the average person can get. This is said from my standpoint; that being of a lowly grunt type. As one moves up in the ranks I’m sure that changes. RHIP in any situation one can name.

A consulting company I worked for negotiated $90 rooms at the local Ritz for a crew...

$90 for the room, and $75 for dinner... OUCH!

Different hotel, got a whole floor, same $90 got a concierge, a suite to use as an office, and there were several $20/meal restaurants within walking distance...

And the consultants liked the second place better. Except for a couple of guys who missed the Ritz's restaurant...

Heck - I'm happy with Motel 6 after the lights go out... And I'll bet we could have negotiated one heckuva lower rate with them...

Oh, for heaven's sakes!!!!!

Come on, people! What is the problem here?

EVERYONE calls ATF all of the same nasty names. Jack Booted Thug, Criminals, Tax Collectors, etc.

Just one question--answer if you can...

HOW MANY OF YOU THAT CRITICIZE HAVE HAD ANY CONTACT WITH AN ATF AGENT---AT ALL?!?

And, how many of you are basing your opinion on NEWS STORIES and journalism--the same journalism that we ALL acknowledge is flawed and prints one sided biased stories?

Here's a challenge for you who continually criticize: PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!!

Get out and use your VOTE--Let's get someone in office who echoes our beliefs and concerns.

Until then, OBEY THE LAW. If you can't, then CHANGE THE LAW through peaceful, legal and effective means!

This young man (heck, who knows? Maybe young LADY) wants to go into law enforcement. ENCOURAGE HIM--OR HER!!!

If you can't say something nice and encouraging, then just be quiet, will you?

Friend, if you want to work for ATF--or ANY other law enforcement agency--then go for it. Do NOT let the opinion of any bystander sway you.

Just remember this--always do your job to the best of your ability, and keep your integrity inviolate.

I, for one, salute you on your choice of a potential career. Many others can not even begin to achieve that goal. Go for it!

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Seconded. Heartily.

Hank ~ There is always the chance that you are not diverse enough.

allan

Hank, it is a proven fact that most of the time, applicants for law enforcement positions do NOT get the very first job they apply for.

I have noted that it usually takes three to five tries to get to the serious selection process.

This is why you usually write the exams for at least three departments at once. Now, with the .gov, it is a whole different story.

They are sticklers for meeting the basic qualification guidelines; in short, if the position calls for a 4 year degree--and you have three years worth of credits--you probably will not be considered for the position.

Also, consider that the Government LEO positions are some of the most highly competitive and sought after positions.

Finally, if you cannot get on a Department locally, consider moving. I know that there are many Departments out here that are begging for ANYONE to apply. Our State Patrol recently dropped the entry level age to 19 1/2!!!

One thing to remember though--education makes you much more competitive. If you don't have any college in your background, consider taking something. I believe that you are a veteran--in this case, your education should be paid for.

Take a look at the smaller Departments, too.

As for your education, consider online courses if you do not have time to anything else. For criminal justice, I highly recommend Kaplan University. It is fully accredited, and you can achieve your A.A.S. or even a Bachelor's Degree online. One caution, though--it is NOT easy--but it is achievable!

(Words of experience from a 48 year old who decided three years ago to FINALLY do something about his education!!! Yep--ah got mah learn on!)

So, keep plugging away. And, if ATF suits your fancy, do it!

I remember the first days of the personal computer...

In particular, I remember one ad...

"Applicant must have five years experience with Word Perfect 5.1."

This was in about 1990ish, and WP51 was maybe a few months old...

Gotta love HR.

Now, say you're applying for a "veterans perferred" job - you could probably list a four year hitch in the 82nd Airborne division, and unless you specifically mention "United States Army," the typical HR geek will skip right past it.

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Someone from HR is gonna hate this...

EVERYONE calls ATF all of the same nasty names. Jack Booted Thug, Criminals, Tax Collectors, etc.

Just one question--answer if you can...

HOW MANY OF YOU THAT CRITICIZE HAVE HAD ANY CONTACT WITH AN ATF AGENT---AT ALL?!?

And, how many of you are basing your opinion on NEWS STORIES and journalism--the same journalism that we ALL acknowledge is flawed and prints one sided biased stories?

Here's a challenge for you who continually criticize: PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!!

Get out and use your VOTE--Let's get someone in office who echoes our beliefs and concerns.

Until then, OBEY THE LAW. If you can't, then CHANGE THE LAW through peaceful, legal and effective means!

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That hooligan Rosa Parks should have just taken her lumps and voted her way out of jail for siting up front with the white folks. The nerve of some people.

You cited the ordeal that Rosa Parks went through. Thank you--I could not voice a better example.

It took some time, but through PEACEFUL demonstrations--and eventually, through legislative action, change--REAL change--took effect.

Think about it. A scant 40 years ago, you could be actively discriminated against for simply having the wrong color skin, and it was almost certain that nothing would happen.

Today, the same actions would most definitely land the discriminatory party in court REAL fast. And, depending on the type of discriminatory behavior, criminal charges could be forthcoming.

Another example--Jim Zumbo.

He shot off his mouth before engaging his brain. Result? He lost his sponsorships, his endorsements, and his JOB within 10 days--all because gun owners responded in force.

What would happen if we, as gun owners, banded together and demanded reforms in the same way we went after Zumbo? Real change would occur!

In the meantime, let's get back on task. NONE of us have the right to discourage a young man from seeking his life's ambition or dream. As long as the job is legal, and morally right, there's nothing wrong with it.

So, let's make it our goal to encourage this fellow in his quest for a career.

Or, would you rather see this young man sporting some bling, pimped out and slinging, yo?

The problem with Rosa Parks as an example is that the government was not prepared to throw millions of dollars at the case.

Say Joe gets busted with an AR, piece of muffler pipe, and a few washers. F-troop wants to say that he was in the process of constructing a suppressor, and they charge him and his shooting buddy with conspiracy to do so. They'll throw lawyer after lawyer at it, and bankrupt both defendants, who will then go to jail.

HOW MANY OF YOU THAT CRITICIZE HAVE HAD ANY CONTACT WITH AN ATF AGENT---AT ALL?!?

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I've been lied to on live radio by one. Does that count?

About ten years or so ago, WTAM-AM had a BATF (I WILL not call it ATF, EVER) agent on one of their call-in shows. She proceeded to LIE THROUGH HER TEETH about how the BATF at Waco didn't have automatic weapons, were "outgunned", and didn't shoot back with long guns "to avoid hurting the women and children". It just so happened that not too long before that, Time or Newsweek had run a large series of photographs of BATF agents STANDING IN THE OPEN, firing into the Davidian house (full of women and children) with M16s and MP5s.

Needless to say, our would-be Leni Riefenstahl was savagely reemed. To the best of my knowledge, NO BATF[E] spokescreature has EVER taken live calls on WTAM-AM again.

All of the defenses of the BATF[E] which I see, give off the same sort of stench that wafts from appologaiea for Nathan Bedford Forrest. And speaking of "General Forrest", would any of the BATFE fans care to explain the $4.6 MILLION settlement in favor of the Black BATF[E] agents who sued that organization? Would any of you care to describe some of the "decorations" found adorning the Oklahoma City BATF offices prior to Tim McVeigh's visit? Would you mind giving the class a brief dissertation on the trading of these items at the "Good Old Boy's Roundup", organized on government time, out of government offices, using government resources by a serving BATF supervisor? And for extra credit, why not explain why a number of BATF agents were removed from the '90s era church burning investigations? Could it be that they had "hunting licenses", but not for any four legged game? What WERE those "hunting licenses" for? Care to say?

The problem with Rosa Parks as an example is that the government was not prepared to throw millions of dollars at the case.

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That's just because the BATF[E] didn't yet exist.

Do a Google search on "Good Old Boy's Roundup". You'll find that HAD they existed, they probably would have burned her house to the ground with her in it.

I'm a small town cop in Alabama. I have been to thought one week long BATF course. While in it I met several of the agents in my area. All of them were top knotch guys. I can't speak for the other parts of the country.

BATF has worked on all of the church burning here in the state. They haven't tried to take over. Mainly they are there to assist and work with the local agencies.

Besides the church burning the two other BIG cases they have made were; one FFL dealer sold about a hundred low end guns to a guy in from NJ or NY. Most of the gun were used in robberies. The other was a National Guardsman selling a few Claymores.

BATF here in Alabama seem to be on the right road.

Oh, for heaven's sakes!!!!!

Come on, people! What is the problem here?

EVERYONE calls ATF all of the same nasty names. Jack Booted Thug, Criminals, Tax Collectors, etc.

Just one question--answer if you can...

HOW MANY OF YOU THAT CRITICIZE HAVE HAD ANY CONTACT WITH AN ATF AGENT---AT ALL?!?

And, how many of you are basing your opinion on NEWS STORIES and journalism--the same journalism that we ALL acknowledge is flawed and prints one sided biased stories?

Here's a challenge for you who continually criticize: PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!!

Get out and use your VOTE--Let's get someone in office who echoes our beliefs and concerns.

Until then, OBEY THE LAW. If you can't, then CHANGE THE LAW through peaceful, legal and effective means!

This young man (heck, who knows? Maybe young LADY) wants to go into law enforcement. ENCOURAGE HIM--OR HER!!!

If you can't say something nice and encouraging, then just be quiet, will you?

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We, the people, are under no obligation to obey any law repugnant to the Constitution of the United States of America. That includes any so called rulings by the nine robes. If that offends you, as a law enforcer, then it may be time to reconsider your occupation.

The Constitution was not written to control the people, nor to give any rights to the people. It is written to control the centralized government that the people felt they needed in order to defend themselves and their States from foreign influences and invasion, and to dispel certain disagreements between the States.

I'm with Tallpine

ATF has no legitimate reason to exist.

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I don't mind the existance of atf...

I do think that some items which have a societal cost should be taxed, and that part of the treasury should be allowed to be formed to administer the collection of said taxes.

So it oughta be called "The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Some Drugs."

If someone commits a crime with a gun or an explosive compound, that should be a job for local police, possibly aided by the FBI, who will arrest the PERSON (or persons...) involved.

BATF has worked on all of the church burning here in the state. They haven't tried to take over. Mainly they are there to assist and work with the local agencies.

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Some of them were pulled off of those investigations for cause.

Do you know what that cause was?

Church fire are automatically ATF&E jurisdiction since comrade Klinton was in office. Even when the Task Force gets activated for a Church fire we just get the preliminary things done. Exterior sketching, pictures, interviews etc.

Nobody, not even the ATF or State Fire Marshal guys on the Task Force enters the building until the ATF CFI arrives. He is in charge of the origin and cause.

The ATF has the worst reputation of any federal law enforcement agency among federal law enforcement officers.

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Yeah, we all hate ATF so much we elected a 29 year veteran of ATF to be the President of the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association (FLEOA).

http://www.fleoa.org/NationalOfficers/ArtGordon.htm

The BATFE is unconstitutionally enforcing unconstitutional laws. They should all be hanged for treason.

Yeah, we all hate ATF so much we elected a 29 year veteran of ATF to be the President of the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association (FLEOA).

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Which speaks volumes for the integrity of FLEOA members. Glad you put that quote in the first person, Lon.

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The BATFE is unconstitutionally enforcing unconstitutional laws. They should all be hanged for treason.

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Harsh, but fair.

ATF are part of the problem, not part of the solution. Has anyone else
grasped the tremendous irony in a gun person considering a career in the
ATF ?

I'm still waiting, folks.

For EVERYONE who is bashing ATF, I would like to see ONE of you post your PERSONAL experience with ATF agents. Not second or third hand--your PERSONAL experiences.


Put up, or SHUT UP!!! There is one thing in common about these rants--they all have the earmarks of knee-jerk statements, just like the ones we hear from the antis about guns: "Baaaad!" "Baaaad guns!" when a majority of them have never even HANDLED a gun, much less fired one. Yet, guns are BAAAAD because someone said so!

So, let's lear from all of you LE bashers about how BAD ATF is--from YOUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCES!!!

Oh, and Antique Collector, this is NOT a flame or a personal attack, but regarding your post:

The BATFE is unconstitutionally enforcing unconstitutional laws. They should all be hanged for treason.

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Please look up the actual definition of treason, as defined by the Constitution of the United States.

Learn what you are posting about before you post it.

The Constitution says: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court"

The BATFE fights against our country and people enforcing illegal laws, and what they did at Waco was certainly waging war against the people there exercising a Constitutional RIGHT to do as they please, in regards their religion and bearing of arms. The BATFE in brutally enforcing unconstitutional laws is waging war against the Constitution, and against states rights in that laws such as the NFA (actually unconstitutional under the second ammendment but that's besides the point here) only should apply to interstate commerce, or going across state lines, NOT every transaction within a state since the feds have no authority to do what they do currently. More could be said, but, the BATFE are actively fighting against, waging war against, the American people, and aiding our enemies in disarming us and making it more difficult to defend against tyrants and foreign invasion and insurrection.