mistake on BATF 4473 means no gun?

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peyton

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While at a local gun shop today my son put his college address instead of his permanent address on the BATF form 4473. When we realized what occurred we asked for a new form, and GOT REFUSED. The gunshop manager said his driver's license should reflect his current address (a dormitory on campus). So is he right or not?

Peyton
 
Check with the local DMV but in most states you are not required to change your address while at a temporary address. A college dorm is a temporary address. The address that you call home is the one that counts. Where you go to sleep when you don't want to go anywhere or have to go anywhere.
That is the address that should be on your license and that is the address you should put on your 4472.
 
Kind of sticky with this one. The law in this state is if you move you have to change your license to reflect your new address within 30 days or your license isn't valid anymore.

If he's getting mail there, sleeping there - living there and instinctively using that address on forms - it's his address.

The address on the form and on the license must match, that's per the ATF. If he doesn't deny you for this he's in the wrong and risks his license. They have to use their discretion about whether or not to give you a new 4473 if you make a mistake. I can see how it went down.
May we have a new form?
Why?
I used the wrong address.
Why did you do that?
I live in a dorm now.
The address has to match the address on your ID.
It's okay because of . . .

It's his a$$ and his call to make. I probably would have done the same thing. The ATF is very picky about 4473s, no abbreviations, if you make a mistake on a question you have to put one line through it and initial next to it. There's all kinds of rules people don't realize.

I'd suggest changing the ID address as a precaution, it's only $15 and the ticket (I know in this state) is like $100 or something for not changing your address.
 
Let me tell you my story...back when I lived in California.

I went to Wal-Mart and to buy an 870. Of course, 10 day wait has to take place. When I filled out the 4473, I put my CORRECT home address. I paid my money etc....

Fast forward 10 days...I go in to pick it up. The address I listed on the 4473, which was my current address, was not what was printed on my drivers license.

They refused to sell me the gun and gave me my money back.
 
The address I listed on the 4473, which was my current address, was not what was printed on my drivers license.

They refused to sell me the gun and gave me my money back.

Right, because it's not a valid ID then. It would have been nice had they caught it and told you this before the 10-day wait though.
 
Yes, the fact that they let me do the 10 dat wait pissed me off.

They actually told me if I could go home and get an electric bill or my lease agreement, that it would suffice to prove I actually lived there, they would allow me to take delivery.

The whole thing just pissed me off, so I took my money back and went elsewhere.
 
It stinks, but look at it from his point of view. Two customers come in, both of whom are (probably) old enough to be federal law enforcement officers. They make a mistake on the form and ask for a new one, telling the dealer why they need a new one.

Could this be a setup? Who knows. The dealer certainly doesn't. It is his license to do business and make a living on the line if the two customers are ATF agents doing some kind of spot check.

With the rules they live by, I would refuse, too. Don't take it personally.
 
Bottom line is you live in a dorm thats "your perm address". Thats also a traffic ticket if he dont get a sticker in his DL too. oh thats what you are suposed to do...would cure the buyiing a gun problem too.
 
i filled out a 4473 @ walmart and they specifically asked if the address on my license was correct, i told them yes since i know how picky walmart is. i put the address on my license (which i've moved from 4 months ago) and everything went through fine.

2 days later i went to a pawn shop to pick up a rifle i had shipped and put my correct (updated) address on the form and it went through as well.

i'd say the counter guy cares more about the address matching than the FBI...
 
Bottom line is you live in a dorm thats "your perm address". Thats also a traffic ticket if he dont get a sticker in his DL too. oh thats what you are suposed to do...would cure the buyiing a gun problem too.

Actually most states don't define college addresses as your permanent address. I know in Florida that's true. When filling out forms and such I would put my dorm address as my mailing address and my home address as my living/billing address.
 
Actually most states don't define college addresses as your permanent address

Same with Texas, dorms are considered temporary addresses. Actually I think it says "on campus housing" so frat houses would count as well or even apartments if they were on campus.
 
I went through a similar issue. During Christmas break, I was home visiting my parents and started to fill out a 4473. I put my college address (temporary) instead of the permanent address (on my DL). After talking with the counter guys, they allowed me to fill out another form with my permanent address.

It was explained to me though, the ATF and the Federal Government doesn't care whether the state considers your address permanent or temporary. The address you use on the form, must be a place where you can be reached, and match your state issued identification.

It seems to be a gray area, as the ATF doesn't have an interpretation for Permanent vs. Temporary addresses, they seem to fall on the state. But then the state doesn't seem to have a preference when buying firearms. It's ultimately the call of the FFL holder and with no clear regulations you're at the mercy of them and they at the mercy of the BATFE.

-Rob
 
In Illinois, you must update your address for your FOID card and DL by contacting the appropriate offices but you DO NOT have to update the actual card itself until expiration. I don't know that many states are like that but I know I've had to write a little note when ordering ammo and firearms explaining while the address doesn't match up on all my ID's. No one has an an issue with that but since I always send my (correct shipping address) FFL 3 along I suppose that helps.

From what I know, a college dorm/apartment is a temp address UNLESS you WANT it to be otherwise. Case in point, my rented house burned down when I was in college and my belongings were covered under my parents homeowners policy because it was a temp address.
 
I would have ripped up the form and let him start over as long as his ID and what he put down matched.I made a mistake on the form at a gun show and put yes to all the questions,having a brain fart at the time.The vendor ripped up the form and I started over.
 
I'm a college student and I use my home address instead of my dorm address on my 4437. If the kid made a mistake they should have let him fill out a new form. Unless it had already been called in and checked as OK. I made the mistake of putting my dorm address as the billing address when I was buying something online, and caused a big mess when the store thought it was credit card fraud. I managed to get it fixed but I learned my lesson, and now I use my home address for all official documents and things (unless I want something shipped to my dorm).
 
As mentioned, the address you list and your proof of ID has to match. If they don't match, then you need more proof (such as an electric bill in your name with the new address) that you live where you say you live.

If you put down that you live at the address listed on your license, and you don't really live there (I don't know how they determine this, but it appears that it differs by state law) then when you sign the bottom of the form you are misrepresenting information on the form, which is a felony (at least it says it is right where you sign the line.)

This sounds like it depends on the law in your state. I probably would have just ripped up the old form and let him start over.

There is also the issue that two of you were there making the purchase. Combined with the address mishap (especially if it looked like you were showing your son how to fill out the form, and if you helped him pick out the gun, etc.) the dealer may have had some suspicion that it was a straw purchase.
 
Waterhouse, this is not entirely true. My DL has a p. o. box, and I fill out my forms with my physical address, never been denied yet.
 
It was explained to me though, the ATF and the Federal Government doesn't care whether the state considers your address permanent or temporary. The address you use on the form, must be a place where you can be reached, and match your state issued identification.

It seems to be a gray area, as the ATF doesn't have an interpretation for Permanent vs. Temporary addresses, they seem to fall on the state. But then the state doesn't seem to have a preference when buying firearms. It's ultimately the call of the FFL holder and with no clear regulations you're at the mercy of them and they at the mercy of the BATFE.
There is no "gray area" about it at all. Students who maintain their legal residence at their parents' home are legally residents at the parents' home address. When I was in college (and graduate school, for that matter) my legal address remained my parents' home address. My driver's license, car registration, car insurance, voter registration, and income tax returns ALL reflected this information. I was in another city (and state) only for the purpose of attending classes, not to establish residence.

The laws are quite clear about this. The guy in the gun shop was wrong.
 
You guys are once again getting tripped up over the distinction between the question of legal residence under STATE LAW, specifically motor vehicle law, and what your residence is for purposes of a background check under FEDERAL LAW. The one does not control the other. Under federal law, the address on the form must be your RESIDENCE ADDRESS--the place where you live and can be contacted. It does NOT as for your PERMANENT ADDRESS, since that includes places that might not actually be your current residence.

You must provide proof of this address. If it's not on your license, you have to provide some other proof of the address which the FFL holder will copy. I have never seen any authority that the system requires you to list your parent's address if you live at a dorm. What the state considers your "permanent address" for driving purposes is irrelevant. Indeed since the whole point of the form is to tell them WHERE YOU ARE LIVING NOW I would list the dorm before my parent's house. It would be truly bizarre for them to zing someone for listing the address where they actually did live. I've listed addresses that have no valid address under state law before--ie "fifth lot on left, Biscuit Road, Lot No. 144, Block 15B, Chicken, AK" That kind of address would probably not cut the mustard for a driver's license, but it's REQUIRED for the form. They want to know WHERE YOU RESIDE. Your CORRECT and CURRENT residence address. If you're living at the dorm, that's the dorm.
 
It's really crowded living here in this post office box :D

So far (up to a couple years ago at least - the last time I bought a gun) it's never been a problem that my DL lists a PO box, and of course my "address" is somewhere else. Even when my PO box is in a different town than the one my rural delivery comes from (my street address is not even in the same county that I live in - figure that one out! :p )
 
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