Alcohol and guns... Very Serious

The big thing: Know yourself.
I know some people who are loopy after one glass of wine. Others can drink a 6-pack and still be lucid.

Realise though, that impairment of judgement usually begns before you feel any obvious physical symptoms. In laymans terms, if you're feeling the "buzz" you're already impaired.

Let's say a worst case senario occured and someone was injured or killed....do you have any idea how bad your arguement would hold up under cross examination by the victims attorneys?

Guns and alcohol don't mix....to say a little is OK is like saying you're just a little bit pregnant.

Well, my guns stay just as available if I've been drinking (or using certain prescription drugs--more later).

But, I don't handle them when I'm impaired, any more than I would drive, or operate machinery.

(I also take some pretty potent prescription drugs....and while "under the influence" of one (not feeling the least bit impaired) I amputated my trigger finger in y table saw, tore up thumb and other fingers. Almost earned the nickname "Lefty" but fortunately most serious damage was fixable, although the index finger is long gone.

I driven for 35 years, shot various guns for 37 years, and operated industrial machinery since I was 9(42 yrs.). One moment of (impaired) inattention cost me.

Obviously, if I needed to use one, I would... I just don't "play" with them unless I'm stone cold sober.

I dont drink very often. And if I do it is usually one drink. But I prefer not to mess with guns when I am drunk.

Here in Kansas drinking and CC'ing are reason enough to have your license revoked. The odds are pretty slim of getting caught in our homes though. Not one to get holy on you but to me drinking isn't nearly as important as my safety and the safety of others around me.

I try not to touch my guns when I drink. I don't lock them up either, though. Since if I were drunk and wanted to unlock them, I could still unlock them, so I don't see the point. btw, it's not drinking and concealed carry if it's in your home. No license is needed to carry your gun in your home.

It warrants repeating: *Know Thyself*.

Biker *burp*

It is just like driving, know your own limits and stick to them. When you start to feel like your limit is crossed put them away and don't muck with them, do it about the same point you would hand the car keys over because you no longer feel you can saftly drive your car.

Bad juju generaly to just drink and muck with them, but keeping one around for SD? No problem IMO just don't get passed out drunk, which is something I don't advocate to begin with.

I was pondering the same thought a few days ago.

That is, if someone has even just a glass or two of wine some Saturday evening and then the situation arises that they need to use a firearm to defend themselves or family, what will be the consequences, even if they are totally justified in said actions?

Or worse, what if the good guy error's somehow during the gun's use and then it is learned that they had some amount of alcohol in their system during the event? Like if the good guy was injured and taken to hospital and the blood test show the presence of alcohol?

Something to think about ahead of that possibilty.

Rembrandt said:

Let's say a worst case scenario occurred and someone was injured or killed....do you have any idea how bad your argument would hold up under cross examination by the victims attorneys?

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I have to concur with Rembrandt.

Even if you are justified, the police arriving on the scene are going to see you as being “the drunk”. Call your local DA and ask him what would happen if you had to shoot an intruder while you are drunk. Seems like it would open the door for negligence, and what follows could easily be a manslaughter charge. Think about what a jury will picture in their minds when they hear about a drunk person defending their home against someone with lethal force. The idea of even mixing alcohol and arms sounds like poor judgment from the start.

I learned a long time ago that being drunk when dealing with the law automatically puts you on the wrong side. Not something you’d want after just putting down an intruder.

Designated is an appropriate factor in all walks of life, be that driving, walking, biking or socializing in the home. For me it's easy, because I do not drink. So, I guess that I am fortunate.

Others have already made the assertion that I would regarding a jury. Pray that you are never in a defensive position, because if you are, you will loose. An additional consideration with the whole jury matter is your insurance. Whether you want to settle or not makes no difference. Your insurance company holds legal controlling authority of determining if and when to settle and for how much regardless of how vigorously you protest...and they will settle. Then, they'll drop you from their policy rosters like a hot potato.

If you pack, you can still par-taaay, just don't partake. JMHO.

Doc2005

In MN you CAN enter a bar with your carry and you CAN imbibe, but, your legal level is .04 ( unless you are a mpls cop...then the sky's the limit ) . So you can have a beer an hour or so and then a glass of water, which is what ya should be doing anyway. As far as at home, I dont lock up my guns ( the ones that are not already in the safe ) when enjoying an adult beverage or two, as a matter of fact I often get up to enjoy a little "gun TV" ... but I am WAY past the point in my life where I actualy get "drunk" ... I will catch a little glow but thats all I'm interested in... Too much going on in the mornings to miss cus of some kiddy hangover.....

Cold Dead Hands

I have read several of your posts, and I think that you must have been indulging in your "Other favorite pursuit" when you concocted this post.

Your insurance company holds legal controlling authority of determining if and when to settle and for how much regardless of how vigorously you protest...and they will settle.

Click to expand...

Excellent point. If your insurance company's liabilty for personal injury claims could be annulled by the negligence of the policy holder (intoxication) during the insured's claim event, you can bet your bottom-dollar that the insurance company will not pay a dime.

Food for serious thought.

I solved this problem 30+ years ago I stopped drinking. no alcohol, no problems PS I'm 57 now

The use of either firearms or alcohol requires a certain level of maturity. If one drinks with any frequency to reach a significant level of impairment, he should evaluate his drinking habits and either drink less or quit. If he drinks responsibly, he isn't likely to get himself into trouble.
Any defensive shooting will almost always come as a surprise. Home invaders won't call and tell you when they plan an attack. The only way to avoid ANY alcohol consumption before an invasion would be to never drink at all. Although I only have two or three drinks a year, I enjoy the occasional drink, and don't intend to quit completely.
After a shooting, a person will enter a legal fantasy land where reality will be twisted in any way convenient by opposing lawyers. If he's had a small amount of alcohol, it will be used against him. Hopefully, the other aspects of the case will offset that in the minds of the jurors.

deleted due to double post

No I haven't had a drop...

Know thyself.
Discipline thyself.
Never get sloshed to the point where self-defense is not viable.

I rarely have more than one drink in a day.
If I do, it's never more than one per hour, topping out at 3 total.

If drinking, don't touch the guns, and don't make yourself stupid enough to.

Self-defense comes first.
Willful inebriation does not trump being prepared.
I'm surprised how often the question arises: "I'm going to get trashed; should I still have guns around?" I reject the premise of the question, that being "being drunk is more important than being functional in an unexpected life-threatening situation."

Be armed.
Don't get drunk.

I follow the same rules I follow to determine whether or not I can drive. I won't drive if I've had much more than one drink per hour. A person my size can metabolize at least one standard drink every sixty minutes. As long as my drinking averages out to what I can safely metabolize, I'm not going to become intoxicated enough for driving or carrying to be an issue.

If I am not having a protracted evening of drinking as described above, I just follow the two drink rule. After work yesterday, I put a chair and a card table in my driveway (I don't have a patio) with a bottle of wine, a book and a good cigar. I smoked an excellent hand-rolled cigar, drank two glasses of 2002 Cab and read my book. I was outside about an hour and my gun was in my pocket the entire time. Having the gun on me meant stopping at two.

I think its also important to know yourself. I weigh 225 pounds and have a pretty high alcohol tolerance to begin with. I'm also not a mean drunk. People that get aggressive when they drink shouldn't drink and if they do drink, they certainly shouldn't do it while armed.

Pretty much did the same thing as you yesterday, Scurtis. Broke out my old copy of King's "The Stand", grabbed a 12 pack o' Milwaukee's Best Light and sat outside with my pup and my scoot and read till it was dark. Not once was I unable to resist the urge to whip the Taurus 450 out of my ankle holster and start shooting my neighbors.

Biker

Many years ago I testified as a expert witness in a case that involved a shooting. The shooter was an off-duty reserve police officer who was still in uniform and carrying his service revolver - a Smith & Wesson Model 10 Military & Police .38 Special, loaded with (then) standard 158 grain LRN cartridges. He was at a party and some drinking was going on. How much he might have had was never determined, but he had imbided some.

Someone talked him into to showing the others his "fast draw," and he consented to do so after (he thought) unloading the revolver. Unfortunately he missed one round, and of course it went off. The bullet went through one side of a wall, a pocket door inside of the wall, and out the other side of the wall. It then hit a woman in the kitchen and penetrated her body, stopping just short of her spine.

Of course legal action was forthcoming, and the drinking became a big issue relative to the officer's ability to be sure he had completely unloaded the revolver. The outcome did not favor either the officer or the department he worked for.

My drinking is very limited, and the number of drinks I consumed last year, and so far this year, can be counted on the fingers of one hand, with some left over. Be that as it may, when I had the few that I did, there were no firearms on my person or available nearby. When there are, I simply don't drink anything stronger then soda. The possible consequences aren't worth it.

Last night, after a long hard week at work, I came home and poured myself a nice single malt scotch on ice, and slowly sipped it over the course of an hour. Two hours later, I decided another one sounded just fine. So I sipped it over the course of the following hour. 10pm rolled around and it was time for bed.

No dancing on a table with a lampshade. No wife beating. No altercations with the neighbors. No careening thru town at the wheel of a death machine. And I didn't feel the need to go thru the house and unload or lock up all my defensive firearms prior to the evening's relaxation, either.

Some people's only experience with alcohol is "binge drinking" where once you start, the only thing that stops you is blacking out - or the cops. It's hard for them to imagine responsible use of recreational alcohol. I can see them taking a dim view of drinking in general and having a hard time thinking that loaded firearms in the house are a bad idea while drinking. The rest of us just shrug and say, "whatever floats your boat, friend". It's similar to the attitude of the anti-gunners who think any gun is a bad gun.

I would never handle guns casually (or wear a gun on my person) while I was drinking alcohol. But I'm never so impaired that I couldn't use a firearm defensively if it were necessary. That doesn't mean that it wouldn't possibly be an issue at the trial, but the odds of being attacked in my home are slight, and the odds of being attacked in my home while using alcohol are absolutely miniscule. I'm not going to deprive myself of one of life's harmless little pleasures because of a one in ten million coincidence chance. Nor am I going to deprive myself of the right to self-defense in my home because of the same infinitessimal chance.

It's illegal in my state to carry in a place that serves alcohol. When I'm at home I just leave it in my pocket - I don't lock up my pocket knife either. Guess that makes me a danger to be around