Police stun 75-year-old woman

No kidding! Did he not read about the people in NOLA that were shot at by the police who blockaded a bridge out of town, point blank huddling on the ground?

Citizens need to stand up and demand that the politicians they elect to protect them from these rogues exert their authority and actually deal with it in a firm way.

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I think the root cause is not the police. Not even the politicians occupying top executive positions. It's that the LEGISLATIVE has too much power, which leads to the executive having too much power, and the judicial both seeks to increase its own power while it struggles to cope with the massive amount of work foisted upon it by the zealous executives, at the bidding of the legislators.

No kidding! Did he not read about the people in NOLA that were shot at by the police who blockaded a bridge out of town, point blank huddling on the ground?

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I read about it. The difference was that that was an extenuating circumstance. The cops that did the shooting and the victims were all in a high stress, hair-trigger environment with little or no oversight. I'm talking about people becoming angry enough to start targeting cops just because they have a badge and a uniform. Maybe along the lines of a serial killer scenario, maybe it will just be angry friends and relatives that ambush cops and then, of course, no one will have seen or heard anything. Face it, all of this finger pointing and assignation of blame is just another level of frustration. To be perfectly blunt about it, a cop's authority is illusory. They can assert their authority as long as the civilian population respects it. Look at what happened during the LA riots; cops attempting to subdue rioters found themselves outnumbered and unwelcome. They, in turn, did the only rational thing; they got the heck out of town.

It's coming, and soon. As long as we have yellow journalists highlighting these types of incidents, the anger will build. The only question is where?

Won't happen, shouldn't happen, would be wrong in many many ways.

The executive simply does what the Legislative tells it. Well, to be honest now days the police chiefs are very involved in formulating legislation too, and that's wrong and they shouldn't do it.

Furthermore, even in the worst case scenario where a large group of people feel extremely victimized by the executive, the civilized response is to cower yet lower, and let the tallest nails get hammered.

But it's irrelevant, the Executive is not the problem (except for politically active chiefs), it's the legislative (and judicial activism).

What a bloody idiot.A shock from the taser,could have killed that lady,because of her age and because she could have had a weak heart,(which doesn't help,at all.).I don't see how this level of force,was necessary at all,for a old woman.All the cop had to do,was talk to her politely and maybe,she would have gotten a positive response,out of her.Although this can wear down alot of peoples patience,because stubborn elders,arn't exactly the easiest people-to talk to.Silly b****,she is not fit to wear,that uniform-at all.She needs to be retrained in 'common sense' at the police academy.

Haven't cops been trained in restraint techniques,that are suitable for these types of incidents,if they should get shoved,by vunrable people?

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I predict that before too much longer, something REALLY ugly is going to happen. Something that has resounding and national repercussions.
__________________


Pay attention, it is already happening.
America is becoming a police state. That is why people are pissed.

kola

Why does this story remind me of that "Grandma got run over by a reindeer" song.

Well - as usual I see plenty of Monday Quarterbacking going on here.

I am sure the majority here complaining of the officers actions have actually been police officers at one time or another - right?

Coulda been a cop with a low threshold for 'disrespect of cop', or it coulda been that the officer truely believed that she needed to get control of Grandma.

No way to tell which is the case from what's been said, either in the story or in this thread.

I am sure the majority here complaining of the officers actions have actually been police officers at one time or another - right?

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I don't need to be or have been a cop to think critically, despite any insinuations to the contrary.

it is pretty easy...a no-brainer:



oil ......vinegar

325 lb lineman.... 128 lb high school kid

gasoline....matches

bb gun....cannon

ta ser..... lil ol lady

ta s er ...6 yr old

She pled guilty to misdemeanors and paid $790 fine.
http://www.policeone.com/less-lethal/articles/120887/

T

he officer who shocked Kimbrell, Hattie Jean Macon, testified Thursday that Kimbrell twice pulled away from her grasp, then tried to walk into a dining area. "I Tasered her at that point," Macon said.

Macon said she wanted to protect other staff and residents. Kimbrell was "loud, rude and ugly to myself and the staff," Macon said.

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Couldn't hold on to a squirelly old lady, lol ? And if loud , rude , and ugly gets you tazered nowadays , well , we may have to rethink what training these people get .

ptm,

I agree. We are seeing these types of scenarios all over the USA.
Abuse of T a s ers.

I STILL belive Tas ers can be a great asset to LEO's but they should be used ONLY in the: PROPER SITUATION.

That ain't happening. It is nothing more than a damn cattle prod to unjustly intimidate people who are CLEARLY non-threatening.

Kola

Was any physical force needed at all? If yes, the taser sounds better than any of the alternatives. A "come-along" or "choke hold?" Mace or pepper spray? A thump on the noggin with a nightstick? Would those have looked any better?

Was it worth shooting her? Nope, it therefor wasn't worth tazering her. Sorry but short of her being armed with a deadly weapon a 75 year old anything isn't justified in shooting with a tazer.

Was it worth shooting her? Nope, it therefor wasn't worth tazering her.

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What the hell!

So now if we think that we may need to use deadly force on someone we should be using the taser instead?

The taser falls in the use of force continum under mace for cripe sake!

"Hey he's shooting at us - quick get the taser out"!

I for one would much rather have seen her taser the old lady than to face plant her into the carpet.

I for one would much rather have seen her taser the old lady than to face plant her into the carpet.

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I wouldn't. Those 75-year-old old ladies hanging around nursing homes can turn on you in a minute. Don't be fooled by their helpless act. They're potentially very dangerous people. She might have had a concealed knitting needle or a handkerchief soaked in chloroform. They like to cry and act confused but then they strike, overpower the authorities, and take their weapons. Never trust one of those old people. Many of them are on drugs and we pay for those drugs with our taxes. We need to stop these knee jerk reactions in support of little old ladies. Think about the poor lady police officer who braved danger to subdue this one.

Which is more likley to break 75 year old bones?

A. Falling over while under the effects of a Taser, with nothing else atop you.

B. Being tackled and slammed to the ground by a grown man.

Both pose risks. But one of them is more likely to result in serious injury. Hmm. Hmm. I'm sure the answer will come to me eventually. I mean, one of my fellow officers just cracked a guy's ribs by tackling him, and this was a young guy, too...and I have yet to see, first hand, anyone getting a broken bone from a Taser, though I know it can happen...hmmm....I'll figure this out sooner or later...

Now, this presupposes that a wrestling match is the only other option, an I don't know that it was. However, sometimes that is the case. Deescalation doesn't always work. Mace can cause respiratory problems and elevated heart rate, same as a Taser. What's left? The Pig Pile, pretty much. Lose lose.

Mike

From DerbyFAL's link...

ROCK HILL, S.C.- A jury found a 76-year-old woman guilty Thursday of trespassing and resisting police in an incident that ended with an officer zapping her with a stun gun.


Margaret Kimbrell chose to pay a $790 fine instead of serving 60 days in jail, The (Rock Hill) Herald reported for Friday's editions. Her attorney said she plans to appeal.

Kimbrell's case received national attention after she was shot with the 50,000-volt Taser in October 2004 while trying to visit a resident at an assisted-living home.

Kimbrell had been banned from visiting the resident by his guardian and police were called after staffers could not get her to leave.

The officer who shocked Kimbrell, Hattie Jean Macon, testified Thursday that Kimbrell twice pulled away from her grasp, then tried to walk into a dining area. "I Tasered her at that point," Macon said.

Macon said she wanted to protect other staff and residents. Kimbrell was "loud, rude and ugly to myself and the staff," Macon said.

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Still not many details about the Tasering, though. I'd like to read the details of the "pulling away". That would lend to or detract from the credibility of the idea that the options were tackling or Tasering. In order to get that, we'll need to wait for the inevitable civil suit for excessive force.

Mike

Which is more likley to break 75 year old bones?

A. Falling over while under the effects of a Taser, with nothing else atop you.

B. Being tackled and slammed to the ground by a grown man.

Both pose risks. But one of them is more likely to result in serious injury. Hmm. Hmm. I'm sure the answer will come to me eventually. I mean, one of my fellow officers just cracked a guy's ribs by tackling him, and this was a young guy, too...and I have yet to see, first hand, anyone getting a broken bone from a Taser, though I know it can happen...hmmm....I'll figure this out sooner or later...

Now, this presupposes that a wrestling match is the only other option, an I don't know that it was. However, sometimes that is the case. Deescalation doesn't always work. Mace can cause respiratory problems and elevated heart rate, same as a Taser. What's left? The Pig Pile, pretty much. Lose lose.

Mike

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Nice to see some common sense around here. What a breath of fresh air!

I have to ask, before the advent of the tazers, how did LE's get by????

Seems like the tazers are used so willy nilly by LE's now adays. I think the use of a tazer should be seen almost as harshly as the use of a firearm.

I think if an LE uses a tazer on duty, he has to explain his actions before a civilian review board. The tazer is a good tool, but it has been used freely with no consequences by the LE community.

Not good....fosters the "us versus them" mentality.

I have to tell you, honestly if I saw an LE use a tazer against my 80 year old grandmother, I'd consider it a life threating action and probably use my CCW to stop him. I would rather face a jury of 12 with a lawyer by myside than to look in the mirror every morning and realize that I failed to protect my grandmother by letting some SOB tazer her.

Wow, just... wow. Aside from a 2 1/2 year old thread being dredged up for no obvious reason, some of the comments here are indefensible.

ebd10 said:

Regardless if you feel that tasering a 75 y/o woman was proper or not, the media continues to fan the flames of division between civilians and LE. I predict that before too much longer, something REALLY ugly is going to happen. Something that has resounding and national repercussions.

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Don't blame the media for this. The fact is, there is a division between the populace and LE. (And, FYI, LEOs are civilians.) I seem to read a story like this every few days... LEOs use excessive force (such as in this case), beat people up (in Chicago bars or elsewhere), abuse their authority, or obtain warrants with falsified evidence, storm the wrong house, and shoot an innocent person... and usually they receive nothing more than "administrative punishment."

A non-LEO who did these things would do time. There is a double standard, and it isn't right.

Lucky said:

Did he not read about the people in NOLA that were shot at by the police who blockaded a bridge out of town, point blank huddling on the ground?

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ebd10 said:

I read about it. The difference was that that was an extenuating circumstance. The cops that did the shooting and the victims were all in a high stress, hair-trigger environment with little or no oversight. I'm talking about people becoming angry enough to start targeting cops just because they have a badge and a uniform.

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I don't give a &@%* if it was a high-stress environment... it's still murder, or an attempt. If they can't act in an upright way without supervision, they shouldn't be on the job. It doesn't matter how angry the people were; if they really were "huddling on the ground" and being shot at, it's attempted murder.

Period.

halfacop said:

I am sure the majority here complaining of the officers actions have actually been police officers at one time or another - right?

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Experience as a LEO is not a prerequisite for valid criticism thereof.

LEOs are government employees, and as such (supposedly) ultimately answerable to the people.

Coronach said:

Which is more likley to break 75 year old bones?
A. Falling over while under the effects of a Taser, with nothing else atop you.
B. Being tackled and slammed to the ground by a grown man.
Both pose risks. [...]
Now, this presupposes that a wrestling match is the only other option, an I don't know that it was.

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For many elderly, falling on a hard surface is likely to cause serious, potentially debilitating or even life-threatening injury. I'm certain that there were alternatives, and it seems very likely that the officer in this case was too quick to "pull the trigger."

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Originally Posted by ebd10
I read about it. The difference was that that was an extenuating circumstance. The cops that did the shooting and the victims were all in a high stress, hair-trigger environment with little or no oversight. I'm talking about people becoming angry enough to start targeting cops just because they have a badge and a uniform.

I don't give a &@%* if it was a high-stress environment... it's still murder, or an attempt. If they can't act in an upright way without supervision, they shouldn't be on the job. It doesn't matter how angry the people were; if they really were "huddling on the ground" and being shot at, it's attempted murder.

Period.

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I'm not defending the act, I'm simply pointing out that LEOs are people, and people act irrationally in high stress environments. I agree that these cops should have been tried for murder, but they weren't. As for the media, they direct public opinion by what they report, and what they don't. How often do we hear anymore about cops saving people in the nick of time? Or thwarting crime? I'm sure it must happen, but it's easier to report bad news. Reporters are notoriously biased and lazy in researching stories about gun control, why should we expect them to be any different about cops?

(And, FYI, LEOs are civilians.)

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If they want to wear uniforms and act like soldiers, I'm going to treat them like soldiers. It's up to them whether or not I treat them like enemy soldiers.

post number 10 hit the nail on the head. my dad was a cop all his life. in the distant past cops were required to be of a minimum height, weight, and physical strength so suspects could be "contained" without the use of excessive force. dad told me when women demanded the right to be LE all the physical requirements had to be dropped or women would not pass the physical portion of their training. because of this female officers are much more likely to draw a weapon in situations where a weapon is not needed

While I think that Tasers are fantastic tools to have, I also think that the police do tend to reach for that particular tool a lot more often that is warranted. I think that Tasers are mis-used just as often as they're used properly. That said, I have to defer to the judgement of Mrs. Ceetee on this one (who, having spent a few years as a medical assistant in a nursing home before embarking on her illustrious career as a law enforcer, is emminently qualified to comment)...

1. "A lot of elderly people have skin that's so thin that just lifting them up by the wrist can peel it back like taking off a sock. I've seen it happen more than once."

2. "Many elderly people have bones that are so brittle that you can break their arm like a twig, withoug even trying."

3. "If the old lady had already been talked to, and was refusing to obey orders to leave, and tried to swing on me, I woulda Tasered her too..."

zrex posted
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As a matter of fact, I just found Officer Hattie Macon's DD214 online.
How did you do that?

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I'm curious to know how you did that as well.