foiled twice by my Saiga :)

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yhtomit

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Today, I finally got to shoot my new Saiga - and it was a hoot! However, I had other obligations today, so after a while shooting handguns (and scrounging brass), I spent only about forty minutes at the rifle range with the Saiga. This range (public) has a 3-round limit for rifle magazines, and since I spent some of the time walking the 600 feet to and from the target holders, some of the time double-checking everything about the rifle and convincing myself that I'd read the manual correctly, that F means "fire," etc, I must admit I was rather frugal with the ammo, and shot only 18 rounds in total. (At the cost of ammo, I do try to enjoy the puttering-about aspects of shooting.)

1) My shooting was weak (alternate: "I am not yet used to the sights."); I had set up a couple of targets, in the hopes that misses of my actual POA could be used to calibrate. However, my vision isn't great and my prescription needs updating, and the moon is in the wrong house, etc, so my clever "giant target" system wasn't giant (and therefore wasn't clever) enough. I need to go back with an old bedsheet for a target, I guess ;) Also, I think I need to bring a small telescope. A certain number of my rounds (which number I am not yet prepared to admit, but it's under half of what I fired) *did* hit my target (the one I was truly aiming at, that is, which was the upper-right hand target of the three I set up), and none hit the upper-left or middle-lower target, so I sure hope my flyers were going to the right :) (Otherwise, I'd be missing by a whole lot farther!)

2) WOW this rifle throws brass. I pride myself on being a thorough hunter of brass -- I hate to leave my cases unclaimed -- but today my recover rate dipped below 50 percent. It took me a long time to even find *any* of my shells; those I did find were tossed slightly rearward but mostly 20-25 feet to the right, perhaps some of them were closer to 30 feet. The case mouth looks a bit bashed on most of them; perhaps later I will attach a picture and ask whether those who reload .223 would consider it salvagable. If not, perhaps I ought to just starting shooting Wolf ammo in it.

3) It was great fun! Industrial strength, no-frills rifle, a trigger that isn't exactly subtle, easy to shoulder, and very positive feeling moving parts. Nothing "silky," "refined" or otherwise reminiscent of a wine review. I just need to work on understanding where the rifle would most like me to point when I would like it to rain destruction on a particular point.

All in all, a fun introduction, however limited.

timothy
 
1) Well, shooting at a 200 yard range, that's a pretty good distance. Can you shoot it at a closer range to check the sights and get used to them? AK sights aren't the greatest...
And the 3-rnd limit is stupid...
2) Yep, the AK does that. It is designed to extract and eject under all conditions. This means that the brass will be dented. Go ahead and run Wolf through it though.
3) It's a "sporterized" AK of high quality.

Main thing is that you need to shoot at a shorter range to get used to the sights and the rifle, if you can.
 
Glad to hear you enjoyed the rifle. Never shot one but have heard good things about the Sagia reliability. As Avenger stated, site in at shorter range if possiable. What I have read and found with my 223 AR's as far as ballistics is that good at 25m means good at 100m. Good at 50m is good at 200m. Enjoy:)
 
Worse than you think :)

The 600 feet is the *sum* of there and back (a 100 yard target) -- which amplifies the lameness of my shooting today.

Next time, I really do plan to take a) a tiny telescope, so I can actually see after each shot what I've hit, in order to adjust and b) a *large* target for that to make more sense.

I've shot very few rifles larger than .22LR in my life (some borrowed shots on an AK, a Mosin, and an SKS are all I can think of right now -- I love post-Communism :)), so part of this is inexperience, at least I hope so!

Perhaps next year I'll be able to get to an Appleseed shoot -- that's one reason I got this rifle in the first place. But with a start like mine today, at least I feel confident of substantial improvement.

timothy

p.s. The 3-rd limit is certainly an annoyance, and a silly one when there's only one person shooting (as was the case most of the time I was there today), but there's an upside: it means that the guy with a 100-round magazine can't squeeze them all off painfully slowly and thereby hold up everyone else at the range. And that's the only decent reason I've been able to come up with for the rule, but it's one I therefore don't mind.
 
You can get a conversion done on your gun that will allow any AK mag to be used. It's a delightful conversion that I recommend. My Saiga isn't my favorite rifle, but it also isn't one I will be getting rid of, primarily because it is fun to shoot. Anyway, have fun with your rifle!
 
First, congratulations on the Saiga -- you made a good choice!

I've taken to using the "visible" targets that turn colors when you hit them. It makes it much easier to sight in even with a scope. Just a thought.

You should definitely consider the conversion...it makes for a great rifle! You can finish it in a weekend if you want -- it's really not that hard (if I can do it, anyone can!) I think the results can speak for themselves:
Saiga_practical.png

If you decide to get serious about it, check over on the Saiga forum...lots of great info and help there (http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?)

Enjoy your Saiga!

Jim
 
I agree with TimboKhan. My Saiga isn't my best or favorite rifle, but I'm not going to get rid of it. It's a high-class AK -- a crowbar that shoots.
My first range trip would not put a round on paper at 25m. It WAAAAAAY to the left. Horizontal sight adjustments are done with the front sight (get a sight tool). However, I ran out of adjustment before I got POA to come close to POI. Got a red dot and shot the center out of the target at 25M -- one very ragged hole. At 50m, it can shoot close to 2". At 100m the first 5 shots are within 6", then barrel heat makes things wander all over the place.
Enjoy the Saiga for what it is. What it ain't is a benchrest gun.:cool:
 
navy87guy -- nice conversion!

Yours looks just like I would like mine one day to look -- very nice!

However, *this* year, mine will stay bone-stock, and once I'm employed the gun-conversion project rises higher on the list ;)

Did you start out with one of the fully sporterized ones, or one with a pistol grip?

timothy
 
I bought a Saiga 308 Sat. morning and took it to the range sat afternoon. When I got to the range, it was "hot", so I couldn't put out targets right away and just started shooting at the steel plates(100yds). I hit every one I shot at. When I could set out a target, I set it at 50yds. to get a idea of how it shoots. 27 of 28 in the 9 ring made me happy.

See:

IMG_0259.gif

Out of the box, not too shabby.
 
my 308 would scratch them, but not put the serious dent in them. now that you have a saiga, arent they just the funnest? And wildly accurate? I swear , they are so much fun, they are like shooting a loud , firey 22mag!!!! If you like to bench shoot, you may wanna keep it the way it is. if you wanna go a' stalkin, then at least the pistol grip is a needed conversion.
 
I can regularly break clay pidgeons at 100 yards with open sights with my .223/5.56 Saiga. Thats with cheap Wolf 55 grain FMJ..........What fun !:D
c_a8fd8_c162b37_oJ.jpg.thumb
 
I've been wondering about the accuracy of the .223 saiga. I want a gun for plinking out to 300 yards, and the saiga seems to be the most for the money. Would you say they are capable of reliably hitting a 10" gong at 300 yards? does anyone have one with optics?
 
SaMx,

I've got optics on mine, but its a .308.


I've been very pleased at my groups. The furtherest I've shot to date has been 400 yards, and it's still holding 1MOA. I used it last year as my primary deer rifle.

-- John


Saiga308Conversion.jpg
 
Navy87Guy, I have to tell you, I really like what you have done to your rifle. No offense to the other guys, but Navy's rifle just really sits well with my aesthetic sensibilities.

Did I really just say that? Sigh.......
 
yhtomit said:
Did you start out with one of the fully sporterized ones, or one with a pistol grip?

It as a stock sporter rifle and I did all the conversion work. Here's the before and after:
Saiga_before_after.png

I thought I was done but I just found out last night that I'm not 922R compliant. It turns out that those really cool Command Arms Accessories stock and pistol grip are made in Israel -- a detail they forgot to mention on their website or on the package. So I need to find a couple of more compliant parts -- probably a gas piston and magazine baseplates - if I want to keep them both. Or I can swap out the buttstock with my AR :(

One of the things I like about the AK platform is that you can have so many different looks and styles. I'm going to install wood furniture on my Lancaster AK for more of the "classic" look -- its synthetic stuff pales in comparison to the Saiga. Be creative and you can have a lot of fun modifying your toys!

Jim
 
I recently switched from a red dot to a scope on my 7.62 Saiga because the gun was more accurate than the cheap red dot would allow me to shoot it. The red dot just got too big at 100 yards. I also enjoy shooting clay birds at 100 yards with it. I only wish it had a more crisp trigger.
RJ
 
Tim - My Norinco Mak-90 mangles the shells so badly that I've never bothered buying anything but cheap steel cased rounds. In addition to squeezing the neck half way closed, it puts a 1/8" deep dent in the side of the case. Oh well... :)

Navy: What do you estimate you have in parts cost to convert a stock Saiga to either version above?
 
Well, bone stock, a 7.62x 39mm Soviet with a 16" barrel and one 10 round magazine will cost you between $240- $290. They can get more expensive.

The conversions can drive the cost up as well, but that's all up to you.

They're an incredible value.
 
Cost:

Depends on your location. In some parts of the country you might find one, new, for as inexpensive as $250. In other places the price might go as high as $300. It should stay within that range, though.

I love my Saiga .223. I have the parts count correct and installed the bullet guide this last weekend. I can hardly wait to get out and shoot it with my converted bulgy mags or galil mags.

Edit: darn! A few minutes too late.
 
I picked up a S.223, was $305, that included $20 transfer.

Local price was $400...

I will eventually get the G2 trigger group, NATO length Stock and pistol grip, I can get them localy, Ulitmak has them in stock.
 
tegemu said:
What do these Saiga's cost?

Best price I've found is R&R Arms (www.rrarms.com) - $247 + $19 S/H. Add your FFL's fee and there's your total price.

The cheapest AK conversion will probably run you around $120 (TAPCO furniture, G2 FCG, bullet guide to use regular AK mags). If you want to add things like ACE side folding stock then the price can go up in a hurry. The nice thing is once you get the basic conversion done, you can "upgrade" at your own pace.

Odnar said:
Navy: What do you estimate you have in parts cost to convert a stock Saiga to either version above?
Okay, don't tell my wife:
Handguard mod - $74
Pistol Grip (6-piece modular set) $40
Vertical Grip - $15
Buttstock - $203 (ACE receiver block, folding stock mechanism, CAR adapter and CAA CBT stock)
Bullet guide (to use regular AK mags) - $25

So that's about $357 -- but I could have spent a lot less on the buttstock and pistol grip, especially if I didn't want a side folder.

Jim
 
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