"Can I look in the vehicle?" wife & kids present

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You guys all need to know one thing:

The officer is going to do what ever he wants.

Once you understand this simple statement you will understand how our system works. They can detain anyone they want, warrant or not, for up to 24 hrs in most states. Then more than likely they will have a dog alert to the presence of "something" in your vehicle and that will provide 'probable cause' at which point they will search your vehicle.

No matter what you do or say, you are going to get violated either way.

Not always, not if he wants it to stick in court, having witness and recording either video or audio will stop a cop(from doing illegal stuff). Or at least at trial it will make the cop look very bad.

Plenty of cops try to over step there bounds, and hope you dont know when they cross that line. Simply telling "bad" cops you know were that line is will stop most of them. They dont want to get into trouble they just want a bust. Yes there are some who might do what ever they want, but they wont last long after all the complaints and law suits.

I always lock my car, at stops, only had one officer ask why, I simply said so no one steals anything.


ps Just to make clear my view point, I believe that most cops are good and honest, theres just that small % of them that ruin is for the rest.
 
One should be careful to remember the police officer’s motivation. He’s not checking your car for your benefit. He is not looking under the front seat to see if there are wires chaffing that might start a fire. He’s not looking in your trunk to ensure your spare tire is properly inflated.

He is looking for something to arrest or cite you for.
 
I dunno ... maybe driving the speed limit and following other "rules of the road" would be a simpler solution.
Kathryn Johnston wasn't driving at all.

She's still dead, shot to death by Atlanta police officers who broke into her home with a warrant obtained through perjury, who then tried to cover up their crime by planting drugs in her house.

What would you recommend she have done to avoid that?
 
I dunno ... maybe driving the speed limit and following other "rules of the road" would be a simpler solution.


Have you read the rules of the road, not the little booklet DMV gives you to study for the test but the real rule book, there are so many rules that all a cop has to do is follow you for 1min to pull you over for some violation. Even the Cops on Cops the show tell you this, and they show it in action. There are so many ways for a Cop to pull you over that no one can obey all the laws. I have had plenty of friends who are cops tell me the same thing.

Ok you just made a turn, used your signal, good job, but i see that you only gave a 199 foot warning instead of the required 200ft warning or maybe your not driving 100% in the center of your lane, maybe drifted one way for a couple of feet. Let me pull you over. Now i can search your vehicle looking for drugs, weapons, drunk, and many more.

Dont even get started on speed limits, thats just a money generating thing, same with red light cameras hell some cityes have even stated that the red light cameras are just there for making money, when they were presented with documents that showed more accidents in intersections with red light cameras.
 
If folks who had nothing to hide, agreed to seaches, those who did not agree would quickly be identified for high probability of contraband.

So what you're saying is that we should let the government into whatever private property we have in order to prove we are not criminal rather than have the government gather probable cause that we are criminal before searching.

You are also saying that our 4th amendment right to be free of unreasonable search and siezure should be repealed and thrown out of the constitution becuase the government is always working in our favor anyway.

Do you really believe this crap, or are you just trying to stir a hornets nest?
 
Bottom line is this. The cop is not your friend when he has stopped you (possible exception if there is some true safety problem with your vehicle like your wheel is about to fall off). He may not be your mortal enemy, but he is not your friend, and everything he is doing is to your detriment.

You are never going to improve things for yourself by allowing a warrentless search. just does not happen.

A simple "no" is the appropriate answer to every request made by LE when they have detained you. Keep in mind there are some things they may order you to do such as providing your DL or insurance card. But those are not requests, even if they are demanded in a polite way.

If ordered to exit your vehicle and you have the opportunity to do so, closing the windows and locking the doors is appropriate.
 
My question is, if an officer stops us, and asks "mind if I take a look in your vehicle?" what is the most appropriate response, given that there are children and a wife in the car?

Your wife and kids being in the car has no bearing on what the appropriate responce is. Your responce should always be "No officer, you may not search my car.".

If the officer is asking you then he clearly doesn't have probable cause. If he did you'd already be on the curb in cuffs while he searches.

Is he going to have a problem with your answer? More than likely. But it's your right to deny him access to your car whether you have weapons or not.
 
Kathryn Johnston wasn't driving at all.

She's still dead, shot to death by Atlanta police officers who broke into her home with a warrant obtained through perjury, who then tried to cover up their crime by planting drugs in her house.

What would you recommend she have done to avoid that?
I dunno ... maybe she should have had a bigger gun :p

Listen, I'm as big of a critic of cops as almost anybody. I'm probably lumped into the "cop bashers" by many folks on THR.

Maybe by living in places like Colorado and Montana I have just been lucky. I don't know about California - I wouldn't even want to cross the border into CA with MT plates :uhoh:

I'm just saying that I haven't been pulled over in over a quarter of a century. Might be some reason for that.

Just say NO! to searches ;)
 
I'm just saying that I haven't been pulled over in over a quarter of a century. Might be some reason for that.
I don't get stopped much.

The last time I got stopped, it was for a headlight out, and I showed the cop the replacement headlight sitting on the passenger seat. No problem.

But then I live in Rocky River, Ohio, not Chicago anymore. Any encounter with the Chicago PD has the potential to end in SOMEBODY'S death.
 
Kathryn Johnston wasn't driving at all.

She's still dead, shot to death by Atlanta police officers who broke into her home with a warrant obtained through perjury, who then tried to cover up their crime by planting drugs in her house

And they should receive the maximum penalty for their crime. No matter what you do or change there will always be evil people in every profession. How do you control that?
 
So if you have a firearm in a locked container, even near the driver, they cannot force you to open it if you say no?
 
Is this not the same argument as an anti-gun person comparing you to Cho. Not all gun owners are evil murderers but it doesnt matter that 99/100 are responsible gun owners as long as that one is killing innocent people.
  • The vast majority of cops are good, so we should surrender our rights.
  • The vast majority of gun owners are good, so we should surrender our rights.
Not exactly the same argument...
 
The vast majority of cops are good, so we should surrender our rights.
The vast majority of gun owners are good, so we should surrender our rights

I never advocated people should surrender their rights. If a person is gonna label a group because of the actions of a few bad apples then we the they are treated the same way they shouldnt complain.
 
From the NRA's "Institute for Legisltative Action" (ILA)

From here

"Note that you have constitutional protections against both unreasonable searches and seizures and against compelled self-incrimination. Although the authorities may search anywhere within your reach without a search warrant after a valid stop, they may not open and search closed luggage without probable cause to believe evidence of a crime will be found, particularly when it is in a locked storage area or trunk of a vehicle, unless you consent. You have a right not to consent. Furthermore, although you may be required to produce a driver's license, vehicle registration, and, perhaps, proof of automobile insurance, you have a right to remain silent."
 
There is no benefit to me to consent to a search.

Is the cop going to find a winning lottery ticket that I forgot about and is about to expire? No. Is he going to find a wad of $100 bills that some stranger tossed in my car? No. Is he going to find a loose wire that's about to start a fire? No. There is nothing he's going to find that's to my benefit. But there's always the slight chance that he's going to find something that might hurt me... an innocuous object that could be construed to be a felony "dangerous weapon", something that somebody left in my car, something that someone dropped in the window as they ran from the police through a parking lot... who knows?

Just say no. There is no reason on Earth to say yes.
 
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