Looking to buy a bolt action centerfire target rifle?
- Thread starter 357mag357
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What do you want it for?
If you just wantt o gun down paper, pop bottles and small game/varmints, thent he .223 is great. If you want to hunt big game, it's hard to do better than an '06.
Does that $1000 include or not include the price of a scope?
Probably best bang for buck, and best accuracy for buck, would be to get a Savage rifle and spend the bigger bucks on a good scope, like a Leupold. That won't get you bragging rights at deer camp, but it will more than do the job.
Another slightly higher priced option, would be a Weatherby Vanguard with a good scope. You should still squeak in under a grand with that.
Most other options will put you over your price point if you want something other than a bargain scope on it.
IMO a lower-end rifle with a good scope is better than a very good rifle with a cheap scope.
If you just wantt o gun down paper, pop bottles and small game/varmints, thent he .223 is great. If you want to hunt big game, it's hard to do better than an '06.
Does that $1000 include or not include the price of a scope?
Probably best bang for buck, and best accuracy for buck, would be to get a Savage rifle and spend the bigger bucks on a good scope, like a Leupold. That won't get you bragging rights at deer camp, but it will more than do the job.
Another slightly higher priced option, would be a Weatherby Vanguard with a good scope. You should still squeak in under a grand with that.
Most other options will put you over your price point if you want something other than a bargain scope on it.
IMO a lower-end rifle with a good scope is better than a very good rifle with a cheap scope.
The Ruger M77 series, while being a fine rifle, is not as easily upgraded for accuracy as the Savage. The front action screw and recoil lug are angled, making bedding problematic. The removable bolt head on the Savage allows enough play to guarantee even loading on the locking lugs.
Only one choice:
Savage 12 F/TR Precision Target Rifle (It's about 1/2 way down the page):
http://savagearms.com/2007_pressrelease.htm
This rifles persistently grouped .5" to 1" at 500 yards with both factory loads and handloads. I am not saying 1 MOA, 1 inch, (.1 MOA to .2 MOA)!!!
Edited to add, that is not with me doing the shooting. That accuracy was published recently in a professional shooting magazine. That's just wicked-accurate!
Savage 12 F/TR Precision Target Rifle (It's about 1/2 way down the page):
http://savagearms.com/2007_pressrelease.htm
This rifles persistently grouped .5" to 1" at 500 yards with both factory loads and handloads. I am not saying 1 MOA, 1 inch, (.1 MOA to .2 MOA)!!!
Edited to add, that is not with me doing the shooting. That accuracy was published recently in a professional shooting magazine. That's just wicked-accurate!
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MinnMooney
Member
You certainly can't go wrong with just about anything in the Savage line. Every rifle that they sell seems to be highly accurate and they always used to amaze rifle testers who test for various shooting mags. (I say that they "used to amaze" 'cause by now all of the writers simply expect Savage rifles to outperform just about anything else, even those that cost twice as much as the Savage. Savage is putting their "Accu-Trigger" and lighter "Target Accu-Trigger" on just about everything they sell - even their .22 rimfires - and for VERY GOOD REASON. It's fantastic! If you try one, you'll love it.
from "Doc2005 :
Ruger can be a very nice & accurate rifle but it's more hit and miss with them.
From "Magmun88c" :
I've owned very expensive scopes and very inexpensive scopes. There seems to be very little benefit to the high end scope in target shooting and during most hunting situations.
One advantage to the high-end scope is if you're using the scope in place of binos or a spotting scope. When you have your eye to the glass for a long period of time, there'll be less eye strain with a scope in the Ziess or Nikon class.
The other advantage is in low-light hunting situations. Here, the lower power and quality optics will help out for those extra 5-10 minutes of late evening or very early morning hunting.
I shoot 300 meter compitition and most of the winning shooters use Tasco, Busnell, Simmons and the like. These are in the $150 - $300 range except some of the Bushnell 'Signatures" series are around $450-$500. It's always daytime light conditions and these scopes are great! They hold zero, have very fine cross-hairs and are parallax-adjustable.
from "Doc2005 :
Only trouble is.... you can't buy one - yet! I believe they'll turn out to be THE rifle that changes the F-Class sport from moderately expensive to a poor man's sport. These have a list price of only around $1100-$1200 (street price should fall to under a grand) and are designed to compete against and win in the F-Class compitition!
Ruger can be a very nice & accurate rifle but it's more hit and miss with them.
From "Magmun88c" :
I've owned very expensive scopes and very inexpensive scopes. There seems to be very little benefit to the high end scope in target shooting and during most hunting situations.
One advantage to the high-end scope is if you're using the scope in place of binos or a spotting scope. When you have your eye to the glass for a long period of time, there'll be less eye strain with a scope in the Ziess or Nikon class.
The other advantage is in low-light hunting situations. Here, the lower power and quality optics will help out for those extra 5-10 minutes of late evening or very early morning hunting.
I shoot 300 meter compitition and most of the winning shooters use Tasco, Busnell, Simmons and the like. These are in the $150 - $300 range except some of the Bushnell 'Signatures" series are around $450-$500. It's always daytime light conditions and these scopes are great! They hold zero, have very fine cross-hairs and are parallax-adjustable.
Outlaws
Member
Shooting a consistent .5" @100yds with a factory rifle is excellent. At 500 yards consistently or persistently at .5" or 1" , I would have to see that one for myself. If Savage can mass produce rifles that shoot better than custom rifles with precision actions and match barrels there are going to be a lot of riflesmiths out of business.
With that said I own a Savage 12BVSS (was $599 last year)in .223 that does shoot very well for me. If there was any fault to be found with this particular rifle is the fact that it fouls rather fast and you can see it as the groups open up. Keep it clean and the groups are really surprising! The only modification I did to this rifle was to have a Sharp Shooter Supply trigger installed. I have come close to ordering a Lothar Walther super match barrel for it , still may do it later.
Also have a Rem 700 LTR ,also in .223. It has been my best overall for accuracy using match bullet reloads. And can fire more shots for me before accuracy starts to fall off. The mods to this rifle was the installation of a Jewell trigger.
Reloading the .223 is far less expensive than the .30 cals. Not sure about your max distance? The .308 would probably have the edge as the distances increase when shooting in wind. At the short range distance (100 yards) I have always shot better with the .223 over my .308- both using match bullet reloads. But I am sure there are others who may have experienced just the opposite.
With that said I own a Savage 12BVSS (was $599 last year)in .223 that does shoot very well for me. If there was any fault to be found with this particular rifle is the fact that it fouls rather fast and you can see it as the groups open up. Keep it clean and the groups are really surprising! The only modification I did to this rifle was to have a Sharp Shooter Supply trigger installed. I have come close to ordering a Lothar Walther super match barrel for it , still may do it later.
Also have a Rem 700 LTR ,also in .223. It has been my best overall for accuracy using match bullet reloads. And can fire more shots for me before accuracy starts to fall off. The mods to this rifle was the installation of a Jewell trigger.
Reloading the .223 is far less expensive than the .30 cals. Not sure about your max distance? The .308 would probably have the edge as the distances increase when shooting in wind. At the short range distance (100 yards) I have always shot better with the .223 over my .308- both using match bullet reloads. But I am sure there are others who may have experienced just the opposite.
rangerruck
Member
For a completely done package, without having to do any upgrades, you may wanna consider the CZ kevlar varmint, with the single set trigger
in 223 or 308, or the ultimate could be the cz 750 in m1 or s1 conversion. I think they are guaranteed moa to 1000 yds.iirw
http://www.czub.cz/index.php?p=32&idp=3&ids=10&idz=47&lang=en
http://www.czub.cz/index.php?p=32&idp=3&ids=10&idz=184&lang=en
they do this laminate version , in a kevlar stock, to keep it light and stiff.
now this last one, believe it or not, is guaranteed to 1000 yds moa, and it is
a classic style hunting rifle, light and beautiful, the scope is a Nightforce, and
it is included in the package!!!!!
http://www.safariclassics.com/cz550uhr.aspx
total weight, 8 lbs!!!!
in 223 or 308, or the ultimate could be the cz 750 in m1 or s1 conversion. I think they are guaranteed moa to 1000 yds.iirw
http://www.czub.cz/index.php?p=32&idp=3&ids=10&idz=47&lang=en
http://www.czub.cz/index.php?p=32&idp=3&ids=10&idz=184&lang=en
they do this laminate version , in a kevlar stock, to keep it light and stiff.
now this last one, believe it or not, is guaranteed to 1000 yds moa, and it is
a classic style hunting rifle, light and beautiful, the scope is a Nightforce, and
it is included in the package!!!!!
http://www.safariclassics.com/cz550uhr.aspx
total weight, 8 lbs!!!!
RNB65
Member
Tell me about the Remington trigger on the varmint rifles. Both CZ and Savage come with excellent out of the box triggers that are designed to be fully user adjustable. I understand that the Rem trigger is much heavier and requires either smithing or replacement to be an effective varmint/target trigger. What's up with that?
I'm also looking at varmint/target rifles and the 700 is on my list, but the thought of paying a premium price for a Remmie then having to pay someone to fix the trigger is a major turn off.
USSR
Member
Sorry, but I'm gonna have to throw the "BS" flag on this one. I shoot in LR competition pretty regularly, and have seen custom built rifles costing many thousands of dollars built by this country's finest gunsmiths, and they will not "persistently" (what the heck kind of word is that anyways, do you mean consistently?) shoot groups like that at anywhere's near that distance. Sometimes you've got to use common sense and the "smell test", and believe me, this one stinks to high heaven.
Don
Thanks
Thank you all for the valuable information. For know I am leaning toward just a target rifle. Paper, cans, milk jugs, so the 223 might be the way to go. Also, my rifle range only goes to 100 yards so long range shooting is limited. About how many rounds of 223 can I shoot threw the gun before I need to replace the barrel? Lets use the Savage 12BVSS for example. I have heard many different answers to this question ranging from 300 to 10000 before you see a decrease in accuracy.
Thank you all for the valuable information. For know I am leaning toward just a target rifle. Paper, cans, milk jugs, so the 223 might be the way to go. Also, my rifle range only goes to 100 yards so long range shooting is limited. About how many rounds of 223 can I shoot threw the gun before I need to replace the barrel? Lets use the Savage 12BVSS for example. I have heard many different answers to this question ranging from 300 to 10000 before you see a decrease in accuracy.
remington triggers are easily adjustable, and their new triggers are easier yet.
back screw is sear engagement, top front is overtravel, bottom front is pull weight. use some sense when making adjustments and don't go too far - which will make the trigger unsafe. remington triggers are easy to work on beyond that, as well. pull 'em apart, stone mating surfaces, and re-assemble. the savage/cz triggers are no better.
if you are truly concerned about the trigger, you need to be looking into jewell, anyway, regardless of rifle make.
rangerruck
Member
as long as you don't overheat the bbl, and clean and lube it properly, I would not worry about accuracy breakdown. Don't shoot fast for more than 5 shot strings, or wear a watch, and shoot 1 round per 30 seconds or more, and don't sweat it.
KINGMAX
Member
Remington
For a $GRAND.$$, you can get a pair of Remington 700's. I found a great buy on a 700 adl in 270. HAVE A LOOK.
For a $GRAND.$$, you can get a pair of Remington 700's. I found a great buy on a 700 adl in 270. HAVE A LOOK.
CajunTim
Member
+1 on the Savage
USSR
Member
Hmmm, my Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary lists "anyways", along with anybody, anyhow, anymore, anyone, anyplace, anything, anytime, etc.
Don
Codyhinojosa
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Savage Model 12 F/TR
I have a review by shooting times magazine on the 12F/TR and it shows a three shot group at 500yards measuring 0.875 inches the magazine was the april 2007 edition so check it out. Unfortunetly they don't have it on their site but you may be able to order old issues. The best group with a factory load was Hornady's 168gr HPBT and measured 1.5 inches.
I have a review by shooting times magazine on the 12F/TR and it shows a three shot group at 500yards measuring 0.875 inches the magazine was the april 2007 edition so check it out. Unfortunetly they don't have it on their site but you may be able to order old issues. The best group with a factory load was Hornady's 168gr HPBT and measured 1.5 inches.
Codyhinojosa
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Oh ya can 2 two factory remington model 700s shoot 500 yard groups measuring 7/8"?????
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