Iraqi politicians call on civilians to arm themselves

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samtechlan

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I did not know Wayne Lapierre was adivising Iraqi politicians.:)


http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraq/0,,2-10-1460_2143809,00.html


Arm yourselves, civilians told
08/07/2007 22:26 - (SA)

Baghdad - Prominent Shi'ite and Sunni politicians called on Iraqi civilians to take up arms to defend themselves after a weekend of violence that claimed more than 220 lives - including 60 who died on Sunday in a surge of bombings and shootings around Baghdad.

The calls reflect growing frustration with the inability of Iraqi security forces to prevent extremist attacks.

The string of attacks in the Iraqi capital showed that extremists could still unleash strikes in the city despite a relative lull in violence there in recent weeks amid the US offensives in and around Baghdad.

But the bloodshed in the Baghdad area paled in comparison to the carnage on Saturday, when a truck bomb devastated the public market in Armili, a town north of the capital whose inhabitants are mostly Shi'ites from the Turkoman ethnic minority.

The death toll has been put between 130 and 150.

Extremists moving north

The attack reinforced suspicions that al-Qaeda extremists were moving north to less protected regions beyond the US security crackdown in Baghdad and on the capital's northern doorstep.

During a news conference Sunday in Baghdad, Shi'ite Turkoman lawmaker Abbas al-Bayati criticised the security situation in Armili.

He said its police force had only 30 members and that the Interior Ministry had finally responded to requests for reinforcements only two days before the attack.

In the absence of enough security forces, al-Bayati said authorities should help residents "arm themselves" for their own protection.

The call for civilians to take up arms in their own defence was echoed on Sunday by the country's Sunni Arab vice-president, Tariq al-Hashemi, who said all Iraqis must "pay the price" for terrorism.

"People have a right to expect from the government and security agencies protection for their lives, land, honour and property," al-Hashemi said in a statement.

"But in the case of (their) inability, the people have no choice but to take up their own defence."
 
Dude it's OK to be Democrat, but that doesn't have to be your purpose in life. I think the article has much more pertinent issues than US party politics.

I think the close of the article is very upbeat, and very enlightened. Not 'savage' at all. In fact I'd say it's magnitude more intelligent than anything the average Eurotrash Liberal mouthpiece would or could say or conceive.
 
Iraqi politicians call on civilians to arm themselves

They should have consulted Sarah Brady first - she could have told them it won't work, they'll just get killed with their own weapons.
 
Ak + good shooting = poor man's bomb disposal

or AK+good head shot = Human Bomber never gets a chance to hit the red button.

or you could for once fend off those nasty militia guys from your rival tribe.

the problem is becuase the country is already in a civil war, everyone there who can afford one has one already, they can't carry them openly, though.

to do so without a uniform invites death from either rival militia members, or the U.S. Army. In many ways it is like trying to hold a gang war with the police closely watching.

except the drugs = sheep or propane or something else you need to live.
 
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I'm glad to hear it! Arming the civilian populace of Iraq is the one solid shot they have at bringing order to the chaos. Attempting to impose order from the top down, using paramilitary forces, on an unarmed populace, was always a doomed strategy.

--Len.
 
I thought they were already allowed to have one AK per household. Or is my information outdated?

I think he isn't talking about gun rights as much as he's urging people to get up off their butts and form their "well-regulated militia." That could go either way: It could help stabilize things or it could just deepen the conflict, depending on who's leading these militias.
 
They are allowed to have one AK per household.

you run into a problem when 3 brothers and thier whole families all live in one house.

They can own as many of other weapon types as they want, and The other part is all weapons MUST be registered!

And don't think the militias from the otherside don't have access to the lists of the people on your side with guns.

the problem is the people aren't defending themselves against the government or random criminals, they are trying to stand up to multiple militia groups that strike without warning, in superior numbers, and usually in a way that is tactically comprimising to you.

the Law abiding Iraqi has all the disadvantages, and until THEY can force the Fanatics out, there's not much anyone can do. Iraqi politicians telling people to arm themselves is like a Priest telling his church goers to buy a bible. They already have one.
 
Oh great so now the Iraqi government is telling its people to arm themselves. The unfortunate part is most Iraqis will probably take up arms against our soldier's, who are seen as a bigger threat than the "insurgents". The insurgents for the most part are pissed off Iraqis who are fed up with the occupation. The Iraqi people want us out of their country we should let them have it.
 
Their military and police forces are barely worth spit.
So it is just the natural progression of things. This insurgency will go on until the people rise up and finally say that they have had enough. Enough is enough.
The huge question is when they get rid of the troublemakers will the factions turn on eachother?

I am disgusted that our military is being used as a security force in the middle of all of this. The Army is a fighting force, it is not meant to be a security force. I can only imagine the nightmare the personnel retention officals are having. Our military is going to be in a shambles after all of this. And it's going to take a long time to recover.
Nobody wants to be part of a half-assed operation.
 
Oh great so now the Iraqi government is telling its people to arm themselves. The unfortunate part is most Iraqis will probably take up arms against our soldier's, who are seen as a bigger threat than the "insurgents". The insurgents for the most part are pissed off Iraqis who are fed up with the occupation. The Iraqi people want us out of their country we should let them have it.

the Iraqi politicians telling people to arm themselves is nothing new. This is just the first time they've publicly done it. there have been allegations of funds for any and all funds from the government being diverted to various militias for years.

and your allegations that they will fight the americans? not true, they are in the middle of a civil war, we're just a third side they'd really rather not deal with.

the people who attack our convoys are nine times out of ten from foreign countries or in the pay of those from foreign countries.
 
JohnL2
Our military is going to be in a shambles after all this. And it's going to take a long time to recover.
It was already in p*ss poor shape. Dubya hadn't finished the reconstruction after the Clinton disaster.:fire:
From what I've seen on the war, every TD&H over there has some type of firearm. Ammo must be free, they seem to delight in firing off a hundred or so rounds in the air to celebrate anything they deem to be good.
From talking to people who have been there, several types of handguns as well as AKs are readily available. The local police have been more concerned with survival than weapons control, especially lately.
It seems that we have struck the Tar Baby full in the face!:eek:
These people have been in the fightin' business for a thousand years, yet we tried to get them to sit around a campfire, roast weenies, and sing happy songs in only 3 or 4 years, Come now!:(
 
Politicians allowing regular citizens to arm themselves...have I died and gone to Heaven? Oh it's in Iraq.

It seems that war between neighboring beliefs and city terrorism brought this to fruition.
 
It was already in p*ss poor shape. Dubya hadn't finished the reconstruction after the Clinton disaster.

I'm sorry the idea that adding a cav battalion to an infantry brigade will make it "more flexible" (Unit of Action) is rather laughable to me. since this is the only "imoprovement" I've seen the president making (firsthand) I'll have to take your statement that he was trying to improve the army with a grain of salt.

remember if afgahnistan was properly done we wouldn't be there anymore, and if we hadn't of done Iraq, we could have done afgahnistan properly. Thus our military would be well on the way to more "improvement", maybe they'd have changed the battle dress to hot pink by now?
 
It is ironic that recent insurgencies in places like Iraq, Afghanistan, and Colombia have completely disproven one of the favorite arguments made by the antis. The antis have long argued that an armed civilian population is an irrelevant factor in the world of modern armies and high tech weaponry.

The just named insurgencies are staffed by fanatical, evil individuals but the general principle stands: An organized group of motivated, armed individuals (call it a militia) is in no way an anachronism in the 21st century. An AR or an AK in the hands of such individuals can be a tool of terrorism but it can also be a tool for the protection of individual or national liberty.

Do not let anyone ever disarm you, EVER.



_________________________________________________________

www.ronpaul2008.com

Two fantastic Austrian weapons:

One is mechanical: http://www.glock.com/

The other is intellectual: Austrian Economics www.mises.org
 
I don't blame the Iraqis for wanting to arm themselves against the terrorists.

We are fighting monsters in Iraq. People who do monsterous things to other people, including other Muslims. Doubt me? Read this;



On Friday, Yon reported that al Qaeda served up a son for dinner to his own family— a barbarism reminiscent of Atreus (hence the "curse" on the House of Atreus) cooking (sans feet and hands) and then serving his twin brother's sons to their unsuspecting father Thyestes. So Yon reports a revolting modern-day Thysestean feast:

The official reported that on a couple of occasions in Baqubah, al Qaeda invited to lunch families they wanted to convert to their way of thinking. In each instance, the family had a boy, he said, who was about 11-years-old. As LT David Wallach interpreted the man's words, I saw Wallach go blank and silent. He stopped interpreting for a moment. I asked Wallach, "What did he say?" Wallach said that at these luncheons, the families were sat down to eat. And then their boy was brought in with his mouth stuffed. The boy had been baked. Al Qaeda served the boy to his family.


While the liberal media complains about Abu Ghraib and other trivialities, attrocities committed by the enemy are ignored. They do not realize the danger we are all in. These people will eventually bring this conflict back to the United States if we do not defeat them where they are now. Rush Limbaugh nailed this on his show today. We defeat these people now or we will fight them here.

Below is a link to the article in NR that the excerpt came from and Rush is talking about. Tim


http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZTUzNmIyNDUyMmRjZTk0OTYwZTRhZTVmNzFkOGIwMGY


BEGIN TRANSCRIPT From Rush Limbaugh show today.

RUSH: The American people could put up with Iraq for many more years. The thing that's become patently obvious is that politicians have no stomach to see this through -- now including more and more on the Republican side of the aisle -- because they're prisoners and paranoid of the media culture and the liberal culture that dominates inside the Beltway. Democrats have succeeded, as you well know, in portraying every aspect of victory in Iraq and subsequent progress as a series of defeats. The Republicans have never competently responded. Meanwhile, Sunni tribes are now killing Al-Qaeda terrorists. They're getting fed up with them. There is no great civil war happening between threes three major factions -- the Sunnis, the Shi'a, and the Kurds -- despite the lie that there is a big civil war. Well, you can't go back and wish we'd-a used more firepower at the outset because what's done is done and what happened, happened. But I'll tell you, they've successfully worked here to sabotage this war from day one. Nothing that they say, the Drive-Bys and the Democrats, can be believed. Nothing that they demand can be accepted. The problem is, I hope we're not paralyzed in taking future military action that might in fact be required.

Now, let me give you details about this barbarism I described moments ago. The best way to do it is just read verbatim from Victor Davis Hanson. I've seen the pictures. I've been to Michael Yon's website, and I've looked at the pictures of what he has found while accompanying US troops. Last Friday, Michael Yon "reported that al Qaeda served up a son for dinner to his own family -- a barbarism reminiscent of Atreus (hence the 'curse' on the House of Atreus) cooking (sans feet and hands) and then serving his twin brother's sons to their unsuspecting father Thyestes. So Yon reports a revolting modern-day Thysestean feast: 'The official reported that on a couple of occasions in Baqubah, al Qaeda invited to lunch families they wanted to convert to their way of thinking. In each instance, the family had a boy, he said, who was about 11-years-old. As LT David Wallach interpreted the man's words, I saw Wallach go blank and silent. He stopped interpreting for a moment. I asked Wallach, 'What did he say?' Wallach said that at these luncheons, the families were sat down to eat. And then their boy was brought in with his mouth stuffed. The boy had been baked. Al Qaeda served the boy to his family.'

"What is striking about all this savagery -- whether with the filmed beheadings of Westerners in Iraq to the recent flaming Johnny Storm human torch at Glasgow, screaming epithets as he sought to engulf bystanders and ignite his canisters -- is the absolute silence of the West, either distracted by Paris [Hilton] and i-Phones or suffering from Bush Derangement Syndrome and obsessed with Guantanamo. It is hard to recall an enemy so savage and yet one so largely ignored by rich affluent and distracted elites as the radical jihadists, as we have to evoke everything from mythology to comic books to find analogies to their extra-human viciousness. For a self-congratulatory culture issuing moral lectures on everything from global warming to the dangers of smoking, the silence of the West toward the primordial horror from Gaza to Anbar is, well, horrific in its own way as well..." He could not be more correct, could not be. Look, I have said constantly on this program: We are so fat, dumb and happy; we are so affluent; we have so much opportunity in this country -- look at the things that we've made up to tell ourselves we live in tough times, that we're overcoming great obstacles -- that we have big-time traumas that we have face, global warming, whether or not to eat organic food. You could go down a list of these meaningless, irrelevant things. "Is the food of the day going to kill you? Is your kid doing this or not doing this? Your kid may be playing dodgeball?

"We can't have that. That's dangerous. They can't play tag because somebody's It, that means more people aren't It, that's embarrassing. You can't do that. We can't even have adequate testing in schools because it's going to be unfair to those who don't do well." We're preoccupied with all of these irrelevancies that we have made into some of the most momentous, mountainous challenges we think we've ever had, when they're nothing. We've tried to get people's hands wringing over every little thing that happens in the news as a crisis except the one thing that really is, and that is a worldwide movement of lunatics who are being very open and honest about what their intentions are -- and they are doing it and there are pictures of them doing it and they're even committing these atrocities against westerners and journalists and so forth. Still, not a peep, except it's our fault for causing it! "If we hadn't gone there, if Bush hadn't lied, if they hadn't cooked the intelligence," all of these irrelevant things which themselves are not true. So what it's led to is fatigue. You know, people only have so large an emotional reservoir. You can only hear about something for so long before you have to stop caring about it because you can't care anymore, and the global warming people have, I think, jumped the shark on that, for a host of other reasons. It's the same thing with the war in Iraq.

The American people have been pummeled for four years day in and day out about what an abject failure it was, how unjust it is, how unnecessary it was, how it has led to people actually hating America, "our image around the world is worse than it's ever been," and, meanwhile, these acts of barbarism are going on, and they're ignored, or they're excused, or they are shuffled aside because it's half a world away, and we don't really expect this kind of thing to happen here. Well, "hope" may be good for a couple minutes when you're stuck at the bottom of a well but it isn't going to get you out. This is something that troubles me greatly. I expect Democrats to be who they are. We know who they are. We know they're cut-and-run. We know that they're defeatists. We know that they are invested in the defeat of their own country and their own military for their own selfish political gains and purposes. But Republicans surrendering on this and running for the tall grass? That's a disappointing thing. This is all going to be a factor in the next series of elections, presidential and congressional, coming up in November of 2008. We've dealt with people who commit atrocities in the past -- as I mentioned in the first part of the program, with Nazis -- and decided without much hesitation that they had to be killed. You couldn't just say, "Well, leave 'em alone. If we don't bother 'em, then they won't bother us."

But that seems to be the objective or the primary way that we make ourselves feel comfortable about how to deal with this. Here's another headline. This is from the Financial Times: "Al-Qaeda Linked to Operations from Iran -- Evidence that Iranian territory is being used as a base by Al-Qaeda to help in terrorist operations in Iraq and elsewhere is growing, say western officials." Okay, so Al-Qaeda is using Iran as a base for terrorists. The terrorists then go into Iraq; they kill Iraqis and Americans with the explicit intention of undermining progress in Iraq. They get help in doing that from the Drive-By Media in this country and the Democrats, then they flee back across the border to Iran. Any US progress in Iraq means that western culture and ideals are percolating in their backyard and they can't have that -- and, by the way, we talked about last week the latest tape from Ayman al-Zawahiri. That tape should have represented in a sane political environment the final nail in the coffin of this era of political Democrats, because it made clear that we are winning. It made clear that we are causing them all kinds of problems. The surge, in fact, is working in a number of places -- and the New York Times inadvertently lets this cat out of the bag today, because the Al-Qaeda insurgents are being forced to take up shop in different parts of the country as we send surge troops in.

Yet here it is July, and we're not going to have a report from Petraeus until September, and yet everybody wants to pronounce the surge DOA in July! It's not September yet, when he's due to report. Now, it's July. Why? You can't afford victory if you're the Democrats! You can't afford for something to actually be said to be working. Victory's not good, not good politically. After all, we've already proclaimed defeat. The Democrats have already got us dead and buried and they've raised the white flag. It's sickening. It's extremely troubling that this kind of thing is being allowed to happen. Now, there's a solution to it, and this is something talk radio can't do. Talk radio is not going to be able to gin up the American people on this. Not totally. This is something the White House is going to have to make a cause of: bearing the news to the American people of these atrocities, talking about just who these people are, and just what it is we're doing. You know, this would be so easy to refute. The Democrats are saying, "Well, yeah, all these Al-Qaeda are guys in Iraq, we admit that because Bush created them there. There weren't any Al-Qaeda in Iraq." Okay, forget all of that and go back to the Zawahiri tape from last Friday.

They're there in Iraq, and Zawahiri says, "It is the center. It is the forefront. It is where the mother of all battles is taking place." Why? If they didn't care about Iraq before we were there, why do they care about it now? Why don't they just stay hidden in the caves of Afghanistan and Pakistan, and, you know, build up their forces in Somalia? Why do they care about Iraq?" Because we're there! They can't afford for a country in their region, particularly in an oil region, to go any way, shape, manner or form Democrat, in terms of democracy and freedom, liberty. They just can't allow that to happen. So, yeah, we're there, and that might be the reason they're sending everybody in, but the fact that they sent everybody and the fact that they do want Iraq, and that we know who they are, ought to wake everybody up as to just how serious this is. But too many people in this country say, "Let 'em have Iraq. Who cares?" Because also, you know, we're all concerned here about burning fossil fuels, folks. Yes, we might be destroying the environment! We might be polluting things, so we've got this movement on. Don't use oil. We're getting ourselves all wrung up about solar energy and wind farms and windmills, and it's irrelevant. It's stupid! It's nothing but a bunch of liberalism to occupy people whose lives are fine, or have the opportunity to be fine. They want you in crisis constantly. They want you in misery and crisis constantly. They want you in that mode so that you will accept whatever "fixes" they propose and so that you will also blame your president for the mood that they put you in.

BREAK TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: Angie in Buford, North Carolina, welcome to the EIB Network.

CALLER: Hi, Rush.

RUSH: Hi.

CALLER: It's a privilege to talk to you. I just have a brief comment about the Al-Qaeda who are murdering children and roasting them. I'm outraged by this, and I believe the entire country should be outraged, and I'm glad that people like you bring it to the forefront, but where's the Drive-By Media? This should be an outrage.

RUSH: It's not the action line. The action line is American atrocities. You have to look at it this way. The media has an agenda. Their agenda is to manage the news. Manage the news according to the outcome they desire. The outcome they desire is American defeat in Iraq and, of course, the president's policy defeat.

CALLER: Yeah.

RUSH: So anything that moves that forward is considered the action line. So if you got an Abu Ghraib, if you got a Club Gitmo, if you have Marines at Haditha, if you have atrocities, or if you have even 150 Iraqis blown up in a car bomb simply because the Americans are there, then that moves the action line forward. But Al-Qaeda atrocities do not move that action line forward.

CALLER: I do not understand that line of thinking on either the Democratic or the Republican part, because what these people are doing is representative of who they are internally, and it's representative of a people that need to be taken down.

RUSH: Exactly.

CALLER: Of a people that need... Obviously we needed to go into Iraq and do something about these people, because they are of that mind-set. We didn't create that in them. That's like saying we shouldn't go after serial killers we might make 'em mad.

RUSH: I know, but the action line again is that we did create them. The media and Democrat Party action line is that these people might have been running around doing a whole bunch of things, but they didn't do it to us.

CALLER: Right.

RUSH: But that of course ignores the existence of 9/11, which they are doing everything they can to pretend never happened, and create a 9/10 mind-set and a possibility of returning to it in the minds of the American people. By the way, one thing on that story from Michael Yon. I think I misspoke when I said that there are pictures of the atrocity I described. There are not pictures. There were pictures of all kinds of other atrocities. The atrocity I described was described to Michael Yon himself, and it's not the first time he's heard it. There aren't any actual pictures of that, but we're going to link to Yon's website at RushLimbaugh.com, and you will see some pretty gruesome pictures of other types of atrocities that Al-Qaeda is committing, and these are atrocities designed to get people in line to intimidate them and get them to stop opposing Al-Qaeda because that's starting to happen. The dirty little secret over there is that the surge is working, it's driving these Al-Qaeda bands out of these places. First they were in Baghdad, then we drove 'em out to a different place, then the surge followed them there and we drove them out to a different place, and they continued to go to little towns and have incidents that kill 150 people, where there are very few medical facilities so it's a very bad result, and so it's reported:

"Oh, my gosh, 150 dead! It's the worst incident in one day in the Iraq war! Ooh, no, no, no!" But don't find out that this is being done on purpose to try to break the will of the American people and get the Drive-By Media to follow suit, as you can make book on the fact that they will, but you're not hearing about all of the Sunnis that are taking up arms against Al-Qaeda because they're not being as compliant as people would expect them to be. Anyway, your point about the atrocities is it simply doesn't move the story forward. Do not forget this phrase: "Manage the news." That is what journalism is. Journalists are liberals for the most part, and they have an agenda, and they do have an interest in the outcome of events. They're not dispassionate. They're very engaged. They want you to believe they're dispassionate, they don't care how things turn out, but we know that's not true. Every story, I don't care if it's a local, dogcatcher ran over a cat, there's an action line to every story, and "government is horrible when Republicans run it" is one action line. It's beautiful and wondrous and Camelot when Democrats are in charge.
 
The world is full of savage barbarians. We cannot stop them all. There is nothing in Iraq worth a single American life or dollar. We aren't "stopping terrorism".

The American people are done with Iraq. Nobody cares any more. Get ready for a President who will get our soldiers out of there, which probably means Clinton or Obama.
 
Good, but... isn't it pretty disturbing how American politicians seem to trust Iraqis more than us?
 
Savage barbarians?

Hmm... where have I heard that before...?

Oh yeah... 1880s

sioux_1.jpg


1910s
wwiimage.gif


1940s
hiro.jpg

The more things change...
 
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