Why is .38 special so long?

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different powder, the technology of which dates back farther than the 9mm

if I remember correctly.

ETA: I'm wrong. I just checked and they both date back to ~1902
 
Because when the .38 Special round was created it was filled with Black Powder and you needed a case that long to get the desired results. Now that we use Smokeless powder that much room isn't necessary but you can't change the size of an established caliber.
 
The .38 was originally a blackpowder cartridge, which needed more space in the casing. When the switch was made to smokeless, the dimensions stayed the same for compatibility reasons.

There's actually alot of air in a standard-pressure .38 case.
 
Because when the .38 Special round was created it was filled with Black Powder

I've always wondered what the full story on this is. The BP loading barely lasted any time at all. And the cartridge was designed well into the smokeless era. So why did the first ones get a BP load? Esp. since it was pretty weak.
 
The .38 spl. is a lengthened version of the .38 S&W, just like the .357 magnum is a lengthened version of the .38 spl.
They kept stretching the case so it wouldn't fit in the parent case's gun until it is almost comedically long.
.38 S&W<.38 SPL.<.357 magnum
 
The .38 spl. is a lengthened version of the .38 S&W, ...

Nope, it's a lengthened version of the .38 Long Colt. :what:

Why? Because in 1899 when Smith & Wesson introduced both their new Military & Police revolver and the .38 Special cartridge, they wanted the .38 Long Colt to fit in it because it was the U.S. military service round of that day. They pointed out in their advertising that one could use eather the service round, or their more powerful "Special."

The .38 S&W was designed for use in top-break revolvers, and is not only shorter then the .38 Special, but larger in diameter, amd uses a .360" rather then .358" diameter bullet. Consequently it won't go into a .38 Special chamber.
 
Someone should come out with .38 Short Colt +p+ and short cylinder revolvers to match.

Or would that not work?
 
you'd have a lot of people blowing up guns.

I've watched more than one new shooter trying to force fit a .357 SIG into his new 686.
 
Owen has the right answer - too many 19th century black powder revolvers around that are chambered in .38 Short Colt.

Federal had a better answer. They offered a rimmed 9mm Luger cartridge, that would have been ideal in an updated, short-cylindered revolver such a the Colt Police Positive or S&W 1903 Hand Ejector. But the cartridge bombed when none of the big-name handgun makers would make a matching revolver.
 
The K frame 1rst Model Hand Ejector - 1899,
came out in /38 Special. The .38 Special was
based on the .38 Long Colt. S&W decided they
wanted a little more zip to Spcl. It was lengthed
so that the 18 grains of black powder was
increased to 21.5 It was a period of transition
and within a year the charge was changed to
smokeless.
 
357 length

My 357 SuperMag is longer than your 357 Maximum. Bwaw ha ha!!!

The 38 Special was originally intended to use either smokless or black powder. A bigger mystery is why the 44 Special is longer than the 44 Russian but wasn't upped in ballistics like the 38 Special vs 38 Long Colt.
 
What was the standard blackpowder load for .38 special? Surely someone has filled a case to the top, seated a bullet, and fired it from a modern handgun.
 
HTML:
What was the standard blackpowder load for .38 special? Surely someone has filled a case to the top, seated a bullet, and fired it from a modern handgun.


Been there done that. Most reliable manuals will tell you to load about 24 to 26 grains of fffg,

HOWEVER:

Black powder cartridges should not be loaded by weight, but by volume. There should never be any air space in the case when your done. Any gap between the powder charge and the base of the projo is BAD NEWS:what::eek:. I have heard it described as being the equivalent of sticking a stick of dynamite into the cartridge.

Ideally, the powder charge should be slightly compressed once the bullet is seated.

You will also want to use lead bullets. Jacketed bullets will work, but they will "iron" the fouling into the grooves on your rifling and you'll soon be shooting a smooth-bore. It is also important to use a soft lube of some type, SPG was designed for this application.

I use a cast lead bullet over a pre-lubed felt wad. Put in enough powder so that once every thing's seated, the powder has been compressed about 1/16th inch.

Sounds more difficult than it is...and the results are a blast to shoot.

BTW: cleaning the gun is a real chore for someone who is used to shooting smokeless.

But, as that little guy on Fantasy Island used to say: "THE FLAME!!!!....THE FLAME!!!! :p
 
357 SuperMag & BP 38 Special loads

357 SuperMags are not all that rare. For whatever reason, Dan Wesson marked them as 357 maximum even though they are chambered for the 357 SuperMag. (357 Maximum works in the manner of putting 38 Specials in a 357 magnum.) I suspect it may have been because the 357 Maximum was available across the counter.

As for the revolver, I love it. I bought it used with a 6 inch barrel and then bought an 8 inch barrel for it, scoped the 8 inch barrel. It's a tack driver. No erosion problems. (Erosion problems in the 357 Maximum mostly happened with the factory load, good handloads don't cause erosion.) I went shooting with a guy who had a Ruger in 357 Maximum. He had a bit of chamber to bore misalignment, but that says nothing about the cartridge. I have a couple of Ruger Old Army revolvers with alignment problems. The main advantage of the 357 SuperMag over the 357 Maximum is that you have enough room for a full powder charge with a heavy bullet which was the original concept. The 357 Maximum requires a heavy bullet to be seated too deeply, cutting into the powder room.

As for BP in the 38 Special, weren't they balloon heads back in the day? So today's solid head 38 Special case has less room?
 
As for BP in the 38 Special, weren't they balloon heads back in the day? So today's solid head 38 Special case has less room?

Absolutely true. The same is the case (pardon the pun) with other black-powder era revolver cartridges, such as the .45 Colt.
 
IIRC original BP load was 158gr at about 900-950fps. Not a wimp load and on par with standard smokeless loads.

mike
 
seems to me I remember. . . . . .

a number of years ago Ruger did a contract run of their excellent Security Six revolvers for the Indian government and they were all chambered for the .38 S&W or the 38/200 as it is known in the British Commonwealth. That revolver comfortably handled .357 magnum rounds so I imagine you could put together some pretty stout loads in those shorter cases without any problems at all. This thread is kind of making me wish I had one of those Rugers to play around with.
 
There were about 30000 made IIRC and there is a few in the US I believe. That would be interesting.
 
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