AD at a family reunion

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Ohioan

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Round on the ends, HIGH in the middle.. oHIo
At my family reunion we like to shoot trap. In fact, that's the reason most of us males attend the family reunion. It's the only time I ever shoot trap in fact.

My father and brother were using black powder muzzle loaders. My brother was using a .62cal/12g (or 20g, can't remember) smoothbore flintlock. My father was using a double barrel 12g caplock. Everyone else was using semi auto or pump 12g or 20g shotguns. We shot for about an hour or so and then it was time for dinner. So, we all stowed our firearms and headed back to the house to eat. Shortly after dinner it started to thunder. My father sent me to put his shotgun away, and a couple cousins went with me.

There were three of us. Cousin A, Cousin B and Me. Cousin A is an avid shooter, hunter, reloader. Familiar with BP arms as well as modern. Cousin B's grandmother owns a trap range back in Florida, so he is familiar with modern trap guns. I own several modern and BP firearms. I was raised around them. I'm the oldest of the three at 25.

It becomes apparent that the storm is going to miss us so Cousin A pulls out a couple of BP rifles he had just purchased. One a .32 and the other a .45. So we decide to see where they are shooting. He started to prepare to shoot them by firing caps on the lock while I cleaned up the mess my father had left out.

I look at my Dad's shotgun and think, "I wonder if it's still loaded". One of the tricks we BP shooters use is to cut a mark on our ramrods when we place them in an empty barrel. That way if you put the ramrod down the barrel an that line is above the crown, you know its loaded. So, I check and sure enough it is loaded. I announced that the firearm was loaded and needed to be fired. I asked Cousin A if he wanted to do the honors, he said no. So I asked Cousin B, who had been watching Cousin A run caps through both of his guns. Cousin B agrees. I handed him two caps and started to walk over to the trap thrower and *BANG*.

I turn around and Cousin B's eyes were like saucers. He had not heard me state the gun was loaded. He thought I wanted him to just run caps through the gun like Cousin A was doing.

Luckily, Cousin A was using safe gun handling skills. He had walked over to the firing line and shouldered his rifles and aimed in the ground to run the caps through. So Cousin B was imitating him and had the gun shouldered and pointed in a safe direction (down) when he fired the gun.

I then hear my father yell from the house "My gun is loaded!".

Lessons learned:

ALWAYS follow safe gun handling techniques, even when you KNOW they are unloaded, because you might be WRONG.

ALWAYS follow safe gun handling techniques, you never know who is watching and learning.

NEVER load a BP firearm and then leave it.

Always have a way to check if a BP firearm is loaded.

Luckily no one was hurt. It sure taught us all a lesson or two.


ETA: Yes, my father and brother were actually hitting some birds. That's a trick with a flintlock!
 
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I've never understood the tendency to leave loaded BP firearms around. Then again, before I became comfortable with guns and "modern" ammunition I would have thought it to be nutty to any gun loaded.

Still, the BP thing makes me scratch my head.

When my grandfather died and the family cleared out his house they found a number of loaded BP weapons around the place. One being a cap-and-ball revolver under his bed. :uhoh:

'Course, this is the same guy that left a nice chunk missing from the front porch while cleaning out a front-stuffer rifle. Popped a cap on it to clear it out, pulled trigger, and yep -- he had left it loaded.

Thankfully I was taught gun safety by somebody outside my family. :D
 
Sounds like your generation is a little safer than your Dad's with firearms.

This certainly points out the importance of the safety rules, but it also points out the importance of communication to help keep you safe.
 
Just to clarify:

That was an ND, not an AD. There was no mechanical malfunction with the firearm.
 
I've never understood the tendency to leave loaded BP firearms around. Then again, before I became comfortable with guns and "modern" ammunition I would have thought it to be nutty to any gun loaded.

Back when they were in general use, it was very common to leave them loaded! The reason; if you needed a gun to defend yourself from a indian, or highwayman, you needed it NOW-- and it took too long to load, so they were left ready to use.
It was also believed (whether this was true or not I will not speculate) that people (usually children) would be a lot less likely to play or tinker with a loaded firearm.

I would agree however, that in our time it isn't a good idea to leave them loaded. One should only keep a gun loaded if it is one counted on for defense purposes -- and that should ideally be a modern gun.
 
AD= Accidental Discharge.. it wasn't on purpose, therefore it was accidental. (my own philosophy)

As a BP enthusiast (we're having a large primitive BP shoot at my house this weekend) I understand why BP firearms were left loaded. Tommygun hit the nail on the head.

However, we weren't relying on it for protection at the family reunion. I discussed this issue in private with my father. My father has issues with BP firearms. He gets to talking while loading and dryballs a lot (put a ball and patch down the barrel before powder).

I like HSO's comment too, the importance of communication around firearms. I comunicated, but not properly. I should've made sure everyone heard me. I know Cousin A did, but I didn't check with Cousin B. I assumed he had heard A and I talking since we were right in front of him. You know what happens when you assume things... You make an ASS out of U and Me.
 
Gramps taught me that guns were always loaded because in the case of his, that was probably a valid assumption to make.

~~~Mat
 
Most persons with a reasonable knowledge of firearms would consider this a negligent discharge. Words have meanings and when we twist them around to try and make a bad thing seem less bad we are doing a disservice to all.

If there is nothing mechanically wrong with a firearm and it discharges due to some action of a person, intended or not, it is a negligent discharge. If a weapon discharges due to a mechanical failure or design flaw and not through a direct physical act of a person it can be called an accidental discharge.

Let us try and stay true to the meaning of words and not be like the antis who twist and torture the English language for perverse gains.
 
Was I using AD to make it seem like less of a mistake? No. I gave the situation and gave all the details. I was not telling half the story to change the meaning of the story like so many other people do when they "spin" the facts.
So please stop lecturing me on semantics. You're taking away from the meaning of the thread.
 
So please stop lecturing me on semantics. You're taking away from the meaning of the thread.

Exactly...C'mon guys, negligent discharges are not to be taken lightely!!!:neener::neener::neener:






:D


But all jokes aside, the important thing is that no one got hurt and everyone learned a lesson.
 
"I look at my Dad's shotgun and think, "I wonder if it's still loaded". One of the tricks we BP shooters use is to cut a mark on our ramrods when we place them in an empty barrel. That way if you put the ramrod down the barrel an that line is above the crown, you know its loaded."

Not real sure I'd like to load-check any gun by putting something I'm holding down the barrel.
 
Under Lessons learned

You left out the most important lesson of them all, and the key to why you had an ND:
Your so called experienced avid lifelong shooter failed to obey rule #1: The gun is ALWAYS loaded.
He should NEVER have been surprised when it went off, because he should have believed it was loaded all along.
 
regarding black powder/muzzleloaders and leaving them loaded.

Black powder is a bit different. When you have powder down and a lead ball on top, you only are 2/3rds of the way done. There is no way that gun is accidentally going to fire no matter how many times you pull the trigger, even if you start dropping lit matches down the barrel. I suppose maybe if you flick on your bic lighter hold the flame next to the nipple, and blow at it gently, MAYBE.

The gun isn't 'loaded' until the percussion cap is on too.

"I look at my Dad's shotgun and think, "I wonder if it's still loaded". One of the tricks we BP shooters use is to cut a mark on our ramrods when we place them in an empty barrel. That way if you put the ramrod down the barrel an that line is above the crown, you know its loaded."

Not real sure I'd like to load-check any gun by putting something I'm holding down the barrel.

Again, blackpowder. Whole different ballgame. Exactly how would you suggest checking a muzzleloader? Opening the chamber? oh wait there is no way to do that!

Besides, you pour in the powder, place the ball and seat it with the ramrod, so every time you shoot, there was a time wjhen you had the ramrod 'down the barrel of a loaded gun!'--except without percussion caps, it isn't loaded
 
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