Winchester 73
member
47 Senators are on board in asking the NPS to allow CC in National Park's.
http://www.news4jax.com/news/15025450/detail.html
http://www.news4jax.com/news/15025450/detail.html
A National Park Carry Poll
- Thread starter Winchester 73
- Start date
- Status
Autolycus
Member
We should not have national parks. Its a states rights issue. Just like FOPA, which also violates the rights of states.
BlindJustice
Member
The article also said areas controled by STate FIsh & Game Depts. Does that mean state parks?
It's not just NPS it's their boss, the Secretary of the INterior and
since James Watt so ruled, his successors haven't changed it.
IMO - There should still be stiff penalties for any idiots who discharge
a weapon in a Nat. park without being endangered/due cause.
With so many females in Wash St. Gov. it doesn't surprize me
that WA state didn't sign up on the letter.
I have a CPL in WA State - my shooting buddy is an
Idaho Resident I can carry concealed in Idaho and several
other western states He can't carry concealed in Wash.
State no reciprocal tween the states. & Oregon doesn't
either but that is another story .
.
It's not just NPS it's their boss, the Secretary of the INterior and
since James Watt so ruled, his successors haven't changed it.
IMO - There should still be stiff penalties for any idiots who discharge
a weapon in a Nat. park without being endangered/due cause.
With so many females in Wash St. Gov. it doesn't surprize me
that WA state didn't sign up on the letter.
I have a CPL in WA State - my shooting buddy is an
Idaho Resident I can carry concealed in Idaho and several
other western states He can't carry concealed in Wash.
State no reciprocal tween the states. & Oregon doesn't
either but that is another story .
.
Fella's;
I've floated the Yellowstone river out of Gardiner Montana. At one point during the float trip, the guide noted that the little step-over stream on the left bank was the northern border to the park. Now for the life of me, given the rescinding of the present situation, I can't think of a single reason why if I were to fire a gun on one side of the creek I'd still be a fine upstanding citizen, but on the other I'd be an idiot.
It's a puzzlement for sure. I know that on a very great deal of Federal land here in the west, National Forests for example, that there's no restriction for firearms use. BLM land also seems to be clear for the use of firearms. Why are National Parks sancrosanct? What was the reasoning behind the prohibition in the first place? Perhaps its the restriction that's the exception and shouldn't be a rule.
900F
I've floated the Yellowstone river out of Gardiner Montana. At one point during the float trip, the guide noted that the little step-over stream on the left bank was the northern border to the park. Now for the life of me, given the rescinding of the present situation, I can't think of a single reason why if I were to fire a gun on one side of the creek I'd still be a fine upstanding citizen, but on the other I'd be an idiot.
It's a puzzlement for sure. I know that on a very great deal of Federal land here in the west, National Forests for example, that there's no restriction for firearms use. BLM land also seems to be clear for the use of firearms. Why are National Parks sancrosanct? What was the reasoning behind the prohibition in the first place? Perhaps its the restriction that's the exception and shouldn't be a rule.
900F
The Sheriff
Member
This woman died because she wasn't able to defend herself.
Tell That to Levin and Stab-me-now!
DAWSONVILLE, Ga. (AP) — A drifter agreed to lead investigators to a hiker's decapitated body in the woods of northern Georgia only after prosecutors pledged not to seek the death penalty against him, authorities said Tuesday.
Gary Michael Hilton, 61, was charged with murder after Meredith Emerson's body was found Monday night. The 24-year-old died of a blow to the head three days after she disappeared during a New Year's Day hike, said Dawson County District Attorney Lee Darragh.
Hilton had already been charged Saturday with kidnapping with intent of bodily injury. He is being held in the Dawson County jail.
The finding that Emerson died before being decapitated was made by Kris Sperry, the state's chief medical examiner, said Georgia Bureau of Investigation spokesman John Bankhead.
Hilton was charged Saturday with kidnapping with intent of bodily injury. He appeared Monday before a judge who denied his request for bail. Hours later, he took investigators to Emerson's body, said John Cagle, an agent for the Georgia Bureau of Investigation.
Emerson had gone hiking with her dog. Hilton was the last person seen with her on a hiking trail and had tried to use her credit card, according to his arrest warrant. Authorities are not releasing information on how Emerson met Hilton and what happened between the time she disappeared and when she was killed, Bankhead said.
Hilton's attorney, Neil A. Smith, declined to comment Tuesday.
At a news conference Tuesday in Athens, Ga., Emerson's godmother, Peggy Bailey, thanked law enforcement agencies and the news media.
"We would also like to thank the untold number of friends, volunteers and family who helped search and support all of us at this tragic and troubling time," she said. Bailey declined to answer questions.
Asked whether the family was told of the arrangement with Hilton before it was made, Bailey said, "We're just not discussing anything about that at all."
Authorities have said they are exploring a possible link between the disappearance of Emerson and the presumed killing of a couple from North Carolina in October, as well as the December death of a woman in Florida.
The agreement with Hilton that led authorities to Emerson's body covers only the prosecution in that case, and other jurisdictions could seek the death penalty for killings there if they find connections, Union County District Attorney Stan Gunter told The Associated Press.
Georgia Bureau of Investigation Director Vernon Keenan said there could be a connection to the case of John and Irene Bryant, a couple in their 80s who disappeared in October while hiking in the western North Carolina mountains.
Georgia officials met with North Carolina authorities Monday to discuss the case, Bankhead said.
The body of Irene Bryant, 84, was found covered with leaves in November. John Bryant, 80, is still missing, and authorities said he may have been kidnapped so he would provide the couple's bank account security number.
Someone used the Bryants' ATM card in the days after their disappearance, investigators said. The ATM transaction took place in Ducktown, Tenn., about 50 miles from the area of the Georgia investigation.
Georgia officials also plan to meet with Florida investigators about the death of a woman there, Bankhead said Tuesday.
The body of Cheryl Hodges Dunlap was found Dec. 19 in the Apalachicola National Forest, southwest of Tallahassee. Authorities say a masked person suspected in Dunlap's death used her ATM card three times after her disappearance Dec. 1.
Sgt. Rob Reisinger, spokesman for Leon County, Fla., Sheriff's Office, said that his agency has requested information about the Georgia case but that it is too early to determine a connection.
Residents had reported seeing Hilton's van in the Dawson Forest Management Area, where Emerson's body was found. A search of the area had been planned, miles from where the woman was last seen, before Hilton told authorities where to look, Cagle said.
Three bloody fleece tops and a bloodstained piece of a car's seat belt were found in a trash bin beside a convenience store where Hilton had used a pay phone, his arrest warrant stated. Hilton had tried to vacuum and wash portions of his 2001 Chevrolet Astro van, which was found without the rear seat belt, according to the document.
Associated Press writer Harry R. Weber in Atlanta contributed to this report.
Tell That to Levin and Stab-me-now!
DAWSONVILLE, Ga. (AP) — A drifter agreed to lead investigators to a hiker's decapitated body in the woods of northern Georgia only after prosecutors pledged not to seek the death penalty against him, authorities said Tuesday.
Gary Michael Hilton, 61, was charged with murder after Meredith Emerson's body was found Monday night. The 24-year-old died of a blow to the head three days after she disappeared during a New Year's Day hike, said Dawson County District Attorney Lee Darragh.
Hilton had already been charged Saturday with kidnapping with intent of bodily injury. He is being held in the Dawson County jail.
The finding that Emerson died before being decapitated was made by Kris Sperry, the state's chief medical examiner, said Georgia Bureau of Investigation spokesman John Bankhead.
Hilton was charged Saturday with kidnapping with intent of bodily injury. He appeared Monday before a judge who denied his request for bail. Hours later, he took investigators to Emerson's body, said John Cagle, an agent for the Georgia Bureau of Investigation.
Emerson had gone hiking with her dog. Hilton was the last person seen with her on a hiking trail and had tried to use her credit card, according to his arrest warrant. Authorities are not releasing information on how Emerson met Hilton and what happened between the time she disappeared and when she was killed, Bankhead said.
Hilton's attorney, Neil A. Smith, declined to comment Tuesday.
At a news conference Tuesday in Athens, Ga., Emerson's godmother, Peggy Bailey, thanked law enforcement agencies and the news media.
"We would also like to thank the untold number of friends, volunteers and family who helped search and support all of us at this tragic and troubling time," she said. Bailey declined to answer questions.
Asked whether the family was told of the arrangement with Hilton before it was made, Bailey said, "We're just not discussing anything about that at all."
Authorities have said they are exploring a possible link between the disappearance of Emerson and the presumed killing of a couple from North Carolina in October, as well as the December death of a woman in Florida.
The agreement with Hilton that led authorities to Emerson's body covers only the prosecution in that case, and other jurisdictions could seek the death penalty for killings there if they find connections, Union County District Attorney Stan Gunter told The Associated Press.
Georgia Bureau of Investigation Director Vernon Keenan said there could be a connection to the case of John and Irene Bryant, a couple in their 80s who disappeared in October while hiking in the western North Carolina mountains.
Georgia officials met with North Carolina authorities Monday to discuss the case, Bankhead said.
The body of Irene Bryant, 84, was found covered with leaves in November. John Bryant, 80, is still missing, and authorities said he may have been kidnapped so he would provide the couple's bank account security number.
Someone used the Bryants' ATM card in the days after their disappearance, investigators said. The ATM transaction took place in Ducktown, Tenn., about 50 miles from the area of the Georgia investigation.
Georgia officials also plan to meet with Florida investigators about the death of a woman there, Bankhead said Tuesday.
The body of Cheryl Hodges Dunlap was found Dec. 19 in the Apalachicola National Forest, southwest of Tallahassee. Authorities say a masked person suspected in Dunlap's death used her ATM card three times after her disappearance Dec. 1.
Sgt. Rob Reisinger, spokesman for Leon County, Fla., Sheriff's Office, said that his agency has requested information about the Georgia case but that it is too early to determine a connection.
Residents had reported seeing Hilton's van in the Dawson Forest Management Area, where Emerson's body was found. A search of the area had been planned, miles from where the woman was last seen, before Hilton told authorities where to look, Cagle said.
Three bloody fleece tops and a bloodstained piece of a car's seat belt were found in a trash bin beside a convenience store where Hilton had used a pay phone, his arrest warrant stated. Hilton had tried to vacuum and wash portions of his 2001 Chevrolet Astro van, which was found without the rear seat belt, according to the document.
Associated Press writer Harry R. Weber in Atlanta contributed to this report.
Autolycus
Member
Do you have proof that she would have been carrying a firearm? And that she did not because of the law?
Ash
Member
Do you have proof she wouldn't?
Ash
Ash
thorn726
Member
the no guns in parks rule is pretty obvious- too many stupid people shooting irresponsibly, then there is the noise, it goes on.
there are some legitimate reasons to restrict FIRING guns in nat'l parks, but carry-
JUst today i was discussing a long hike in Joshua tree, off the main trails -
my tiny little lady friend said "if we go out there, i want something to shoot snakes with, i won't feel safe with less than a gun"
-smart girl, dumb park service
i had to remember this nonsensical law, funny you guys have the thread just as i am talking about it.
would this change in law if it happened allow us to carry say a .22 rifle?
or is this only going to help ccw people be able to carry concealed?
there are some legitimate reasons to restrict FIRING guns in nat'l parks, but carry-
JUst today i was discussing a long hike in Joshua tree, off the main trails -
my tiny little lady friend said "if we go out there, i want something to shoot snakes with, i won't feel safe with less than a gun"
-smart girl, dumb park service
i had to remember this nonsensical law, funny you guys have the thread just as i am talking about it.
would this change in law if it happened allow us to carry say a .22 rifle?
or is this only going to help ccw people be able to carry concealed?
denfoote
Member
Comrade Levin would say that her death, however regretable, was necessary to advance the common good.
These entities do not think the way we do!!
That's why they need to be defeated the same way we defeated Julius and Ethel Rosenburg!!
Emphisis mine.
Jon Kyl I can maybe see, but John McPain only signed on to this because he's trying to fool y'all into thinking he's actually pro gun!!
Actually he's an anti gun carpet bagging RINO who ditched his first wife and blew into Arizona to marry into the local beer Baron's fortune!!
The Sheriff
Member
Killing of a Young Hiker Puts North Georgia on Edge
(NYT)
ATLANTA — In the days after a young woman was killed after being abducted on a popular North Georgia hiking trail, instructors offering a crash course in personal safety found classes filling up as fast as they were scheduled, and that they had to turn some women away.
"To be honest with you, I asked my wife and some of my friends to come to the one we held yesterday because I wasn’t sure anyone was going to show up,” Jim Stratton, an instructor at Atlanta Budokan, a martial arts studio in Smyrna, said Saturday as he watched a line of women waiting for the next class snake around the building.
Mr. Stratton need not have worried.
The classes, hastily arranged throughout the region by the studio and the local radio station WWWQ, known as Q100, clearly met a need in a community struggling to come to grips with the apparently random attack on the hiker, Meredith Emerson, 24, of Buford, who disappeared near Blood Mountain on New Year’s Day with her dog, a black Labrador retriever mix named Ella. Her body was found Jan. 7.
“It hit close to home because I’m an avid runner and hiker, and I do those things by myself,” said Amanda Lancaster, 25, of Post Ridge, who estimated that she ventured outdoors alone four or five times a week.
Nearly 300 people, mostly women in their 20s and 30s, showed up Friday to the first personal-safety class offered this month in the Midtown area of Atlanta. An estimated 250 women quickly filled the studio at the Smyrna location on Saturday morning, and another overflow crowd packed an afternoon session the same day.
Jenny Hass, 39, an elementary-school teacher and personal trainer from Kennesaw who attended the morning class on Saturday, said that she used to go on walks with her young son every day, but that after Ms. Emerson’s death, her husband asked her to stop. The couple even discussed buying a gun.
“It’s definitely put a deterrent on my outdoor exercise activity,” Ms. Hass said.
The search for Ms. Emerson and the subsequent discovery of her body riveted North Georgia.
Search-and-rescue crews combing the area where she was last seen, a popular path that leads to the Appalachian Trail, found a water bottle and a dog’s leash. Fellow hikers told the police that she had been talking to an older man in a yellow jacket who was also walking a dog.
Ms. Emerson’s parents flew from Longmont, Colo., to Georgia while they waited for word of their daughter’s whereabouts. They described her as a feisty and gregarious person who knew how to handle herself outdoors and said that if anyone could survive the chilly overnight temperatures, she could.
But hopes dimmed after the police identified the man last seen with her as Gary M. Hilton, 61, a drifter with a criminal history who had intimidated hikers on other local trails.
Mr. Hilton was apprehended in the parking lot of a convenience store near Cumming as he was cleaning out his van. The police recovered three blood-soaked fleece shirts, Ms. Emerson’s wallet and her University of Georgia identification card, and they found a bloody seat belt in a nearby trash bin. Ms. Emerson’s dog was found wandering the parking lot of a grocery store across the street. The police also said that Mr. Hilton had tried to use Ms. Emerson’s A.T.M. card.
After making a deal with prosecutors that spared him the death penalty, Mr. Hilton led investigators to Ms. Emerson’s body on Jan. 7. It was near Dawsonville, and the authorities said her head had been severed. An autopsy revealed that Ms. Emerson was probably killed on Jan. 4, a fact that haunted many of the police officers and volunteers who had been searching tirelessly for her since Jan. 1.
Mr. Hilton was charged with murder. He is being held without bail in the Dawson County Jail.
Since his arrest, the authorities in Leon County, Fla., have named Mr. Hilton a prime suspect in the death of Cheryl H. Dunlap, 46, a Sunday school teacher from Crawfordville, Fla.
Ms. Dunlap was found dead and dismembered on Dec. 15 in the Apalachicola National Forest near Tallahassee. Cameras caught a masked man trying to use her A.T.M. card after her disappearance on Dec. 1, and an agent for the state forestry service encountered Mr. Hilton near where Ms. Dunlap’s body was found. The agent ran a check on Mr. Hilton’s license plate number but did not detain him.
Investigators in North Carolina said Mr. Hilton may also have been involved in the disappearances of an elderly couple, John and Irene Bryant, 79 and 84, who were last seen alive in the Pisgah National Forest on Oct. 20. The body of Mrs. Bryant, which had been beaten, was found three weeks later. Mr. Bryant remains missing and is believed to be dead.
But it is the attack on Ms. Emerson that has continued to rattle North Georgia residents, many of whom endure 90-minute commutes into Atlanta so that they can live near the Blue Ridge Mountains and the Appalachian Trail.
“We’ve had a lot of people yesterday and today call and ask what the law says about taking firearms into national parks,” said Randy Gambrell, assistant manager of Vogel State Park. “It has darkened the mood on the trails, for sure.”
Trail-maintenance volunteers have planned a memorial walk and a smudge ceremony, which is an American Indian cleansing ritual that involves burning sage to rid a place of evil spirits, on Sunday to honor Ms. Emerson and to try to calm their own nerves.
“The lasting effect something like this has on an area is terrible,” said Jennifer R. Morse, a clerk at Mountain Crossings, a backpacking supply store toward the southern end of the Appalachian Trail.
Ms. Morse said she used to relish her ability to hit the trail with nothing more than her dog and a water bottle, but that she had not been hiking by herself since Ms. Emerson’s body was found.
“I think all of us saw ourselves out there,” Ms. Morse said. “It’s hard to say why it was her.”
(NYT)
ATLANTA — In the days after a young woman was killed after being abducted on a popular North Georgia hiking trail, instructors offering a crash course in personal safety found classes filling up as fast as they were scheduled, and that they had to turn some women away.
"To be honest with you, I asked my wife and some of my friends to come to the one we held yesterday because I wasn’t sure anyone was going to show up,” Jim Stratton, an instructor at Atlanta Budokan, a martial arts studio in Smyrna, said Saturday as he watched a line of women waiting for the next class snake around the building.
Mr. Stratton need not have worried.
The classes, hastily arranged throughout the region by the studio and the local radio station WWWQ, known as Q100, clearly met a need in a community struggling to come to grips with the apparently random attack on the hiker, Meredith Emerson, 24, of Buford, who disappeared near Blood Mountain on New Year’s Day with her dog, a black Labrador retriever mix named Ella. Her body was found Jan. 7.
“It hit close to home because I’m an avid runner and hiker, and I do those things by myself,” said Amanda Lancaster, 25, of Post Ridge, who estimated that she ventured outdoors alone four or five times a week.
Nearly 300 people, mostly women in their 20s and 30s, showed up Friday to the first personal-safety class offered this month in the Midtown area of Atlanta. An estimated 250 women quickly filled the studio at the Smyrna location on Saturday morning, and another overflow crowd packed an afternoon session the same day.
Jenny Hass, 39, an elementary-school teacher and personal trainer from Kennesaw who attended the morning class on Saturday, said that she used to go on walks with her young son every day, but that after Ms. Emerson’s death, her husband asked her to stop. The couple even discussed buying a gun.
“It’s definitely put a deterrent on my outdoor exercise activity,” Ms. Hass said.
The search for Ms. Emerson and the subsequent discovery of her body riveted North Georgia.
Search-and-rescue crews combing the area where she was last seen, a popular path that leads to the Appalachian Trail, found a water bottle and a dog’s leash. Fellow hikers told the police that she had been talking to an older man in a yellow jacket who was also walking a dog.
Ms. Emerson’s parents flew from Longmont, Colo., to Georgia while they waited for word of their daughter’s whereabouts. They described her as a feisty and gregarious person who knew how to handle herself outdoors and said that if anyone could survive the chilly overnight temperatures, she could.
But hopes dimmed after the police identified the man last seen with her as Gary M. Hilton, 61, a drifter with a criminal history who had intimidated hikers on other local trails.
Mr. Hilton was apprehended in the parking lot of a convenience store near Cumming as he was cleaning out his van. The police recovered three blood-soaked fleece shirts, Ms. Emerson’s wallet and her University of Georgia identification card, and they found a bloody seat belt in a nearby trash bin. Ms. Emerson’s dog was found wandering the parking lot of a grocery store across the street. The police also said that Mr. Hilton had tried to use Ms. Emerson’s A.T.M. card.
After making a deal with prosecutors that spared him the death penalty, Mr. Hilton led investigators to Ms. Emerson’s body on Jan. 7. It was near Dawsonville, and the authorities said her head had been severed. An autopsy revealed that Ms. Emerson was probably killed on Jan. 4, a fact that haunted many of the police officers and volunteers who had been searching tirelessly for her since Jan. 1.
Mr. Hilton was charged with murder. He is being held without bail in the Dawson County Jail.
Since his arrest, the authorities in Leon County, Fla., have named Mr. Hilton a prime suspect in the death of Cheryl H. Dunlap, 46, a Sunday school teacher from Crawfordville, Fla.
Ms. Dunlap was found dead and dismembered on Dec. 15 in the Apalachicola National Forest near Tallahassee. Cameras caught a masked man trying to use her A.T.M. card after her disappearance on Dec. 1, and an agent for the state forestry service encountered Mr. Hilton near where Ms. Dunlap’s body was found. The agent ran a check on Mr. Hilton’s license plate number but did not detain him.
Investigators in North Carolina said Mr. Hilton may also have been involved in the disappearances of an elderly couple, John and Irene Bryant, 79 and 84, who were last seen alive in the Pisgah National Forest on Oct. 20. The body of Mrs. Bryant, which had been beaten, was found three weeks later. Mr. Bryant remains missing and is believed to be dead.
But it is the attack on Ms. Emerson that has continued to rattle North Georgia residents, many of whom endure 90-minute commutes into Atlanta so that they can live near the Blue Ridge Mountains and the Appalachian Trail.
“We’ve had a lot of people yesterday and today call and ask what the law says about taking firearms into national parks,” said Randy Gambrell, assistant manager of Vogel State Park. “It has darkened the mood on the trails, for sure.”
Trail-maintenance volunteers have planned a memorial walk and a smudge ceremony, which is an American Indian cleansing ritual that involves burning sage to rid a place of evil spirits, on Sunday to honor Ms. Emerson and to try to calm their own nerves.
“The lasting effect something like this has on an area is terrible,” said Jennifer R. Morse, a clerk at Mountain Crossings, a backpacking supply store toward the southern end of the Appalachian Trail.
Ms. Morse said she used to relish her ability to hit the trail with nothing more than her dog and a water bottle, but that she had not been hiking by herself since Ms. Emerson’s body was found.
“I think all of us saw ourselves out there,” Ms. Morse said. “It’s hard to say why it was her.”
Ash
Member
It is illegal to discharge a firearm in the cities around me, yet CCW is legal. Of course, in this case, the rule of never hike alone was broken. That isn't just to defend against bad guys, but to help with broken ankles etc. On our last hike, not far from the murder scene, we actually had a guy pass a kidney stone! It would have been lousy for the guy to have had to endure that alone in the middle of the mountains long away from the car.
Ash
Ash
22-rimfire
Member
Allowing carry by CCW or the equivalent in parks (state or national) is a great idea. I have always found it a bit ridiculous that you can't hike in grizzly territory inside a park legally with a firearm. With crime increasing along the trails inside parks, I think carry would be a very good deterent. Whether or not Meredith Emerson would have chosen to carry a firearm is up to her, but at least she could have had the choice.
If it wasn't for Teddy Roosevelt, we wouldn't have anywhere near as many national parks. +1 for Teddy!! Tecumseh, You'll have to explain the "states rights" issue relative to national parks to me. And I suppose that the Federal Government had no duty to assist in the Katrina emergency in Lousiana and Mississippi? State's rights.... Maybe we can fight the Civil War again on this issue.
If it wasn't for Teddy Roosevelt, we wouldn't have anywhere near as many national parks. +1 for Teddy!! Tecumseh, You'll have to explain the "states rights" issue relative to national parks to me. And I suppose that the Federal Government had no duty to assist in the Katrina emergency in Lousiana and Mississippi? State's rights.... Maybe we can fight the Civil War again on this issue.
- Status
