University response to NIU

I don't intend to hold my breath until guns are allowed on every campus.

I know that it won't happen all at once.

Guys, we've made some great strides in the past 20-30 years in fixing a lot of gun control stuff. But it takes YEARS to fix the things. It doesn't happen overnight.

And in almost EVERY instance, people bitch that the legislation that fixes one part of the problem doesn't fix the whole damn thing.

sigh.

If you don't work for something, because it isn't going to happen instantly, guess what? It'll NEVER happen. So, be patient, and keep at it. And it _will_ happen. Just not right now.

I swear, some of you folks don't have the patience for microwave popcorn...

So, Snow, does that mean that it's totally useless to contact them? EVERY call or e-mail they get is one more grain of sand... Sooner or later, the balance will tip.

Unless you don't make the call or send the e-mail.

Hello everyone long time lurker here.

A bit of my background. I am currently a grad student and I got my BS last year. I am 30 years old and I work for the campus PD (as a security guard).

Firepower I can somewhat see your point however there are a lot of non traditional students out there (myself included) who should be able to carry. I am unsure of other states but in mine you have to be 21 to be able to get a ccw (and I would guess that this would be at least 1 requirement for carry on campus).

That is not to say that there would not be some problems.

One major problem I see with student's carrying is that it would be very hard to acquire the target in a school environment. Think about it for a minute, 100-200 students in the cafe, lecture hall, or even outside. A shooter appears, cracks off shots and somehow you are going to be able to acquire the target (with all the other students running around) and make sure that 1) you do not hit any of the other students, and 2) that the bullet does not go through the bad guy and take out another student. In other words it would be a tactical nightmare. I could also see the faculty, staff, student who makes the shot being crucified in the media (if not legally) because they hurt or killed a innocent. By that same token if someone found out that you had a weapon and did nothing with it you would be crucified by the media as well.

With that said...........I do believe in the deterrent factor. If people were allowed to carry the bad guy would prob not pick the school as their target. It is a difficult decision to make.

Personally I think I should be able to carry my weapon however I do understand the responsibility that I have with it. If it came down to me vs a shooter I would not hesitate. But I believe that I should have that choice.

Well, you rockin' grad student, welcome to THR...

Yeah, there's always the -chance- of a miss. However, if your target is standing in the middle of the lecture stage, calmly reloading, well, you can aim...

And given the choice between -maybe- getting hit by someone trying to do some good, and -definitely- getting shot by the lunatic who is standing between me and a door, I'm gonna hope that whoever is carrying is a decent shot.

It's all about choice. We want choice!

Oleg, if you're reading this, that'd make a cool campus "make liberals heads go into a loop" kinda poster... horizontal, "choice!" in monster letters across the page, and below it, something else about defenseless students, with say the pictures of the the disarmed/armed dichotomy...

Hello Bogie,

Thats the word of the day ...............choice........... :>

Okay... let's see if this works...

Print it on paper, make stickers, cut out the third line of text and insert your own.... keep it "clean" so that it'll stand out in clutter.

This is the logic that has been going through my head:

The best defense against a gun is another gun.

The best defense against a knife is running away.

A maniac can burst into a crowded room and start firing, taking out a few people before anyone (armed or unarmed) can even react.

Someone with a knife can burst into a crowded area and stab a few people before anyone knows what's going on.

Should we handcuff all students to their chairs, just in case one of them gets the idea to get all "stabby"? If they were all tied to their chairs, then no one could stab anyone else. Of course, if one person decided that a room full of tied down "defenseless" people would make headlines to go stabbing in, then there wouldn't be much choice in the matter for those students in their fate.

Of course we don't tie students to their chairs for their own safety, because they are adults, and deserve the opportunity to be treated like one. Does that analogy make sense?

As far as students on campus "packing heat", I don't really see what the objection is. It is not easy to get a CCW as far as I know. You have to be of a certain age, you are no allowed to drink while you have it, and various other restrictions. As was asked before, if you are afraid of what might happen on a school campus due to "irresponsible CCWers", then are you also afraid of ALL CCWers? Because if you aren't, then that is a bit hypocritical. IT reminds me of a thread a while back where a very avid CCW holder was vehemently against anyone carrying in Disneyland. He felt that it was unsafe because there are so many kids there. And yet he would carry to the mall, to the park, out camping, in a movie theatre...

The people who will be carrying are most likely not the ones that you would need to be afraid of "packing". In all honesty, if they did change their policy, I seriously doubt a bunch of thugs and immature morons would all of a sudden run out and get a gun cause now they could. The dangerous and stupid people don't obey the law, so they already have their guns on campus.

Us old farts who've managed to stay out of trouble through most of our adult lives are kinda boring and responsible...

Firepower is from the tribal areas of pakistan near afghanistan. i remember from an earlier thread he started about picking the right rifles to outfit his community with. thats why his language sometimes sounds a bit foreign in nature. that's what he means by the most dangerous area, the one with rampant al-qaeda and whatever other militants are there. he knows plenty about guns.

What do you guys think of these buttons? Gonna tweak the design a bit, and crank out a bunch to take to Knob Creek...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=341298

Bogie, good try. But, CCW is a bit of an insider term... jargon if you will. Kinda like 1%er to the motorcycle crowd.

Avoid terms unfamiliar to the general public.

Right... Hmmm...

Keep the "No Choice" and "No Chance"

How about "Self Defense" for the middle? Or "Self Defense on Campus" as a slogan?

Take a look at the "buttons" thread... I'm running small enough batches that I can customize them per school...

"Campus Concealed Carry Now"
"Concealed Handguns Now"
"Support Campus Concealed Weapons"

Bogie:

How about "Legalize Concealed Weapons"?

Bob, they generally are - What's Washington's laws on that? I can do a batch specifically for Washington state...

CCW is legal in Washington State.

I guess what I was trying to say was: "Legalize Concealed Weapons on Campus" (but that takes up too much room.)

How about: "Abolish Gun-Free Zones"?

Howzabout this?

I like 'em - especially the two on the right.

FWIW,

I hammered out this thread with people after VT, it was in response to developing a "skeleton policy" for campus carry.

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=289761

Essentially we analyzed all points and concerns and it would be surprisingly easy to allow CCW on campus. The thread mainly focused on concerns like guns in residence halls. I'm pretty sure the whole, "accidental bystanders" bit could be shot down by simply stating, "if you accidentally shoot someone, you'll probably be charged with murder." We drew up the CCW policy for "Imaginary University" (IU). I was pleasantly surprised by what people came up with. In general I think there's at least 90% agreement on what needs to be done. I would be shocked if we couldn't at least get basic CCW on some campuses.

bogie,

Great work!

I like the buttons you have that say "Concealed Carry" somewhere in it. I don't like "Support Self Defense" because it's beating around the bush.

Maybe try "Campus Concealed Carry Now!" in the middle with...

"concealedcampus.org" and "concealedcampus.org" on the top and bottom or
"In Memory" and "The Victims" on the top and bottom or
"In Memory" and "VA Tech & NIU" on the top and bottom.

I'm luke warm about "No Choice" and "No Chance" because those are messages put forth with the negative "No". You may not like Obama, but there's no mistaking that sheeple are responding to his positive form of messages ("Yes, we can.").

-Jake

had a police officer sit inside the library at my university distributing flyers. told me to read the flyer in case a shooting happens on campus. one of the tips mentioned about running to a room then locking the doors.

i mentioned if leaving a gun in your vehicle on campus was legal and he said it would be best to leave it at home. sucks for us.

i mentioned if leaving a gun in your vehicle on campus was legal and he said it would be best to leave it at home. sucks for us.

Click to expand...

A gun in outside in your locked car is the same as having no gun at all when a psycho is in the same room as you killing people.

You should have said support carry on campus for State Licensed CCW holders. Then if he said "it would be best to leave it at home." you could have asked him...

"If it was your wife, son or daughter who was TRAPPED in that situation. Would you want them to wait 30min (or longer) for Law Enforcement to show up and confront the shooter?

No offense officer, but I really don't understand your reasoning. If I or my family was in that situation. I would take a 60yr old grandmother with her CCW right then, than ALL the LEOs within 50 miles 30min to an hour later."

See how they answer that...

Actually might do some with www.a-human-right.com on 'em, unless Oleg tells me to cease and desist...

I'm sure the Campus Concealed folks have their own thing going.

i mentioned if leaving a gun in your vehicle on campus was legal and he said it would be best to leave it at home. sucks for us.

Click to expand...

Where do you go to school? Send an e-mail, and copy the president, dean of men (or women), dean of your department, your department chair, and the chief of security.

"Dear President Smith,

In light of the recent violence at NIU near Chicago, I'm concerned about student safety on our campus. I am one of your responsible students who has trained and qualified for a concealed weapons permit, valid in this state. We would like to be able to have these weapons available on campus, for use in the event that we are present if an incident such as the one at NIU occurs. We feel this can act as both a primary deterrent to those bent upon mayhem, and as a last-ditch defense in event we are present at an incident. Allowing permit holders on campus would also possibly reduce incidents of campus assaults, robberies and rapes by outside individuals. We realize that our professional campus security force cannot be omnipresent, and would like to remain safe.

Sincerely,

Please type/spell/use grammar correctly.