Local mall practices for a bad guy.

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2Lman

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A local mall in my area recently did a drill to prepare for a potential bad guy that goes on a rampage in a mall.

http://bangornews.com/news/t/city.aspx?articleid=160812&zoneid=176

Police, Bangor Mall team up to be ready if violence strikes
By Aimee Dolloff
Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - Bangor Daily News

BANGOR, Maine - An announcement made over the Bangor Mall’s loudspeaker instructed tenants to lower their storefront gates and take cover. A few moments later, three Bangor police officers entered the mall through a main entrance door with their guns drawn.

The steps were taken Tuesday as part of a mock active shooter drill that was organized cooperatively with mall managers and operations staff, store tenants and police officials.

"There are certain procedures that we do differently in an active shooter situation than we would in a fire drill or mall evacuation, but the premise is to prepare," mall manager James Gerety said after the drill. "I feel it went very well."

The mall was closed for a short time during the drill to members of the public, some of whom take advantage of the indoor facility for their morning walk.

Gerety wanted to assure members of the public that there is no threat and that he has been working to plan the drill for about six months as a precaution.

After the drill, Gerety and Bangor police Lt. Jeff Millard briefed store tenants and received feedback. That information will be compiled, evaluated and used in future drills.

"I think that we have a lot to build on," Gerety said. "I think we have achieved what we wanted to achieve this morning."

Millard also said he was pleased with the way the drill proceeded.

"The key is to get in as quick as possible," Millard said.

Five Bangor officers were involved in the drill, and Millard explained that what action police take depends on what the shooter does. Whether the shooter is actively shooting throughout the mall or a store, taking hostages and barricading himself or fleeing the facility determines what action police will take.

Mall officials invited Bangor police to participate in the drill, and Millard said it was a great training opportunity.

"We’ve always had a good rapport with the mall," Millard said. "This showed that."
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While it is good to be prepared, one has to wonder about the wisdom of part of your "protection" plan that calls for the tenant stores to lower the gates to their stores. Wouldn't that effectively trap many people out in the center of the mall, with more limited places for good cover, possibly leaving them as sitting ducks?

I am glad that they are at least thinking about protecting their patrons, but it seems that it is more thinking about what looks good for the news, and makes people feel good, in that they are being "protected?"

It pays to always remember that we are responsible for our own safety.
 
"It pays to always remember that we are responsible for our own safety."

You got that right:cool:


Make a safety plan. etc, for family/close friends.
 
At least they didn't do this while there were patrons in the mall . I do agree that by lowering the gates , it may place people in the predicament of having no place to hide. But , then again , malls in this state are not "gun free zones" :D
 
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As much as I question the tactics of this "plan" itself, I must acknowledge that the mall is at least recognizing there is a problem. Getting out of denial is the first step in recovery.... :p
 
"I do agree that by lowering the gates , it may place people in the predicament of having no place to hide."

I disagree. What needs to be done in an active shooter scenario is denying potential victims to the shooter. People in the stores can be isolated from the gunman by lowering the gates effectively denying the people in the stores from the shooter. Since the mall "foyer" can be accessed from outside, the people not in the stores have the ability to exit the mall without having to move through a "hot zone". Additionally, when police arrive, they don't have to stop and search every store, only those that don't have gates lowered. It makes sense to me. Not ideal, but it reduces the amount of damage a gunman can do.
 
I disagree. What needs to be done in an active shooter scenario is denying potential victims to the shooter. People in the stores can be isolated from the gunman by lowering the gates effectively denying the people in the stores from the shooter. Since the mall "foyer" can be accessed from outside, the people not in the stores have the ability to exit the mall without having to move through a "hot zone". Additionally, when police arrive, they don't have to stop and search every store, only those that don't have gates lowered. It makes sense to me. Not ideal, but it reduces the amount of damage a gunman can do.
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Depends on the mall . We have a mall locally that has a main entrance centrally located , but the other 2 entrances/exits are at the opposite ends . The mall is one wide open , straight building with the stores lining each side . Basically , anyone caught outside of a store would have to run 100 yards in the open to get to the exit .

I haven't been to the mall in question , so you may be correct about that particular building . But as far as the mall close to me , basically the whole mall is a "hot zone" .

leasemap.gif

Notice the main entrance and the entrances at the far ends of the building . You can easily see to each end of the mall . Btw , pretty much every store has an exit door to the outside within their store . In this particular mall , you would be better off being able to run into the store and exit out the stores back door .
 
Unfortunately, there is no easy tactical solution to a mall shooter situation. I personally agree with closing off the stores to reduce access to victims. The key is to get the cops in quickly and move to the gunfire, take the bad guy down as quickly as possible. Ideally, an armed person in the mall will have made this unnecessary before my guys and I arrive! If not, then we have to take bad guy down fast. Less stores to deal with means quicker response to the shooter.
 
sounds like about the best plan you can come up with short of teaching store owners some basic shooting techniques, but that would make way too much sense.

cutting off the shooter(s) from more victims reduces the supply of victims, but it seems likely that by the time they are able to alert the store owners to the problem, and the stores get locked down, there will already be a big pile of victims.

these things take place in minutes. a nut case can squeeze off a lot of rounds in just one minute.
 
"What if by lowering the gates you hide the bad guy?'

Then he is separated from all the other customers in the mall. Perfect. When the cops get there it'll be like shooting fish in a barrel.
 
Then he is separated from all the other customers in the mall. Perfect. When the cops get there it'll be like shooting fish in a barrel.
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He's also trapped in the store with the store employees and any customers in that store, thereby essentially ensuring that everyone else in that store will die.
 
So you think not locking him in the store is better, so more potential victims are available?

They should have armed themselves.

Actually, I doubt any store manager is going to stand around and lower the gates when there is an active shooter in his store. And I also doubt that the people in there are going to stay in there (maybe some of the sheep will hide and bleat "don't hurt me".)
 
Here's a quick question(or two) ? Anyone ever see how slowly those electric gates move ? Would YOU want to be the one standing there while it chugs along? The majority of the gates require keys. Who has the key , where are they? Are they down at the food court on lunch break? Do you wait to close the gate if you see someone running down through the mall towards YOUR store , or do you continue closing the gate ?

Again , I think it would all depend on the design of the mall .
 
You can only imagine how loud discharging a firearm of just about any caliber would be within a mall. I can't imagine myself sticking around to see what the sound was; I would know and my first response would be to move my family and myself to cover (preferably a hasty exit from the mall).

Now if this incident went down in my immediate proximity, I would be forced to take action in an effort to protect myself and family. To me a fine or slap on the wrist for not obeying the malls "no firearms" notice is worth the risk.

In my opinion we are all responsible for our own safety and the safety of our families and if you make the choice to go anywhere unarmed it's your choice to live or die with.
 
A question out of ignorance:

Don't most stores in malls have stockrooms in the back which exit to either the outside, or a service area where goods can be moved from the docks to the store?

I wonder if it might not be a bad idea to leave the gates open, but have signs in the fornt of the store proclaiming there was an emergency way out from that particular store.

What prompted this was the map provided above of that particular mall, where almost all of the stores backed out into the parking areas...

Sorry if this sounds stupid.
 
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