disarmed by LEOs

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The police are trained to put a knee in your neck or back while cuffing you on the ground.

We are????? I guess I, and every cop I know and have ever made an arrest with, have been doing it wrong the whole time...
 
I used to be in LE for ten years back in the 80's. Seems like more LEO's today have the attitude that they're above the folks that they serve often refering to the populace as mere "civilians.":fire:

I used to be a big fan of the TV show COPS. After the first few seasons they were showing more officers that were anti-gun. It just put a bad taste in my mouth from then on and I stopped watching.

I am not anti LEO. I support them and the job they do unless they want to deny me my God given, constitutional rights. I saw one episode of COP's where an officer stopped a car for a routine traffic stop. The driver had a CHP and the officer still said that they (the police) didn't like talking to people with guns. I can't remember the jurisdiction to save my life. But I'm thinking, dude this is America, get another job!!
 
...How can this not involve cop bashing?

The famous statistical bell curve tells us that with every population, 68% of said population will fall into the category of "average." And while statistics as a whole is a worthy tool of manipulation, and thus not to be trusted, the bell curve tends to be eerily accurate.

Hence, most of the LEOs out there are not so good at what they do. Hell, to me they are on a neverending power trip. I've yet to meet an LEO who didn't treat me like the guy who ran over his childhood pet. I don't think they are inherently evil, but I do think they feel entitled to wield the considerable power they hold, however it pleases them.

In short, they are not to be trusted. They're human beings, for chrissake.
 
True story.

Back in 1965 an old guy up the street owned a mom and pop liquor store. One night a young white guy came in to rob the place. I don't remember now if he waved a gun or wore a mask. The old man reached under the counter, pulled out a .38, and shot the guy dead. The police came, took the witness statements, let the old man close up the store and go home. No charges filed, no taking into custody to wait for the prosecutor to review the case, no gun confiscated.

The next night the dead guy's brother comes in the store and announces he's going to kill the old man. The brother has his hands in his jacket pockets like he has a gun. The old man goes for his .38 again, and by the time he gets it up and fires the brother has turned back towards the door. The (unarmed after all) brother gets the bullet in the back and dies on the spot.

The police come and take the witness statements, let the old man close up his store and go home. No charges filed, no taking into custody to wait for the prosecutor to review the case, no gun confiscated. Since the old man faced two death threats from the same family, and there were more family members, they parked a manned police car in the old man's home driveway all night for the next two or three weeks.

Imagine this scenario playing out today. The old man would have been cuffed and transported, locked up for days, had his gun confiscated, and most likely faced some kind of criminal prosecution in order to justify taking him into custody in the first place. The second shooting may have been delayed a while, but most likely would have still occurred, BUT that would have done the old man in for good even if he somehow made it through the first legal gauntlet.

I'm old enough to have witnessed law enforcement evolve into a whole lot of LEO CYA at all costs versus doing what is obviously the right thing under the circumstances. Once some kind of action is initiated, a ped check, whatever, the incentive is to CYA by justifying the action some how some way. Probably most people stopped and checked out did something to deserve it, but not all.

I've been stopped and checked for no reason whatsoever, and the cop even admitted it was just random, and I didn't like it at all. I came out 100% clean in all respects and still got a general purpose warning for ... whatever. The pointless warning about nothing specific became the CYA justification for the unconstitutional random stop. Not in a crime area, no traffic or vehicle violations, just a random stop to get another point for the proactive score sheet. :cuss:

Most of my friends through life have been cops, had cop sons, fathers, brothers, etc, so I am not anti-cop at all. I spent a good chunk of life working in cop shops. What I object to strongly is the drift towards department policy and custom becoming "the law" as practiced on the street.
 
Like every profession, some do it because they love and it some do it to pay the bills.

Frankly, if I were out to 'pay the bills' being a cop, I wouldn't want any 'civilian' to have a gun either.

On the other hand, if I were I cop doing it for the love of the profession, I would be enthralled to see people exercising their rights in a responsible manner.

Luckily, we still have quite a few of the second type of LEO around.
 
We are????? I guess I, and every cop I know and have ever made an arrest with, have been doing it wrong the whole time



Seriously, two officers I know say they were trained that way.
Are you saying that the police aren't trained to control a suspect by pinning them to the ground while handcuffing them?
Would you consider this excessive physical force?
Maybe this is an East coast thing, there have been many brutality cases from this exact thing in the news papers. All the cases were dismissed and deemed appropriate.
 
Hence, most of the LEOs out there are not so good at what they do. Hell, to me they are on a neverending power trip. I've yet to meet an LEO who didn't treat me like the guy who ran over his childhood pet. I don't think they are inherently evil, but I do think they feel entitled to wield the considerable power they hold, however it pleases them.

In short, they are not to be trusted. They're human beings, for chrissake.

Law enforcement like any other "career" draws people that are interested in
that particular calling. Geeks like to open computer and electronics businesses. People who like food frequently open restaurants and catering companies. Caring people will go into social work, healthcare, teaching etc.

Those who like authority, the ability to control others and give orders go into
Big Business, the military or Law Enforcement. Essentially many cops become cops because they want, enjoy and seek out opportunity to wield authority.
That is why a disproportionate number of them abuse their power...they were drawn to the job by the siren song of that power.
 
Are you saying that the police aren't trained to control a suspect by pinning them to the ground while handcuffing them?

Well, "the police" is a pretty broad term. Kind of like saying "the Germans". Which ones? All of them? Some of them? The truth is, you can't make a statement like that because "the police" isn't some giant monolithic entity with uniform tactics and training. Everything varies from department to department.

No doubt some officers use the "knee to the back" technique. I've never been trained that way, nor has anybody I know. Every agency that I'm familiar with in my area uses a system developed by PPCT Management Systems, in which I don't think any "knee-to-the-back" techniques are included. I wouldn't use it, anyway, as in my opinion it doesn't provide good control of a subject.

Would you consider this excessive physical force?

Can't say. Is the arrest for writing a bad check, or aggravated assault w/ intent to murder? Is the suspect an in-shape 18-year old or a 72 year-old with a bad leg?

The point I'm trying to make is that it all depends on the specific circumstances. There are no absolutes.
 
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