Am I Free to Leave????

In Oregon and Washington state open carry is legal. "Printing" is not a legal issue. If the gun is on the belt in a belt holster and it's visible, it's legally considered "open carry."

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its a little grayer than that. in WA, if you are concealing a weapon and an officer notices it he has the right to ask you to present a CPL and you have a legal obligation to show it to him. its printed right on the license.

if you're open carrying and not attempting to conceal, you can refuse to show a license or even ID and be on your merry way as the officer has no reasonable and articulable suspicion that a crime is being committed. if the officer goes beyond that, they are breaking the law and violating your rights.

i don't have an answer to the AZ equivalent though. i haven't read the state laws. the OP should do some googling and find out the answer to those questions.

Bobby

I belive Arizona is the same as in Wash or Oregon. If you are packing and its seen thats open carry and they can ask you for ID and to see your permit,you have no obligation to tell them you are armed or have a permit unless asked. Scotus ruled a while back though if they ask for ID for a permit and you walk off and ignore them they can haul you in to jail now though as refusing to show ID is now grounds to belive a crime is being commited.

not quite. you're required to identify yourself with name and address, but no with an ID card, as per SCOTUS. state laws may require that you show ID anytime you are asked by a LEO.

Bobby

As usual the law and what how things work tend to be a bit counter. A lot of towns have city ordances on loitering and other stuff where they tend to go way past the intent of any Scotus judgements as in dont show any ID they may well take you to jail for the night.

Things that make you go hmmmm?

Care to comment Sherrif?

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Sheriff?
Sheriff?
School night?

geeze where I live at they think you are up to somthing if you dont have a gun on or under the truck seat.

Let's wait for a response to Jorg's information. Jumping on The Sheriff in any personal way ain't the righteous way.

, Grammaw

Your at the store and your guns printing and an LEO notices and stops to talk.

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They are allowed to talk to you. nothing unconstitutional about that. There is generally no requirement that you engage in conversation however. Depending on various circumstances, you may be required to ID yourself.

If they ask to search you and whatnot what are your legal rights, what should you do?

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If they ask, the answer is "I do not consent to any search".

I don't know what "whatnot" is.

As for what you should do, I think you should treat it as a chat like you would any other stranger that might come upon you in public and initiate a conversation. No reason to be rude or obnoxious.

Don't let your CW print. This doesn't exactly answer the problem, but mature adults know how to carry discreetly. Some one mentioned brandishing: I think this is way off base for wearing your shirt too tight. Now, if you were pulling your shirt tight and poking your hip out at someone that is giving you dirty looks, that is different. At the same time, some states do have a law that says something to the effect of "If it is concealed, it must not be visible or you get a ticket." In these states you should find a way to carry without the opportunity to have an "oops."

Fwiw, open carry and carrying concealed poorly are two different things.

Tarvis said:
Don't let your CW print. This doesn't exactly answer the problem, but mature adults know how to carry discreetly. Some one mentioned brandishing: I think this is way off base for wearing your shirt too tight. Now, if you were pulling your shirt tight and poking your hip out at someone that is giving you dirty looks, that is different. At the same time, some states do have a law that says something to the effect of "If it is concealed, it must not be visible or you get a ticket." In these states you should find a way to carry without the opportunity to have an "oops."

Fwiw, open carry and carrying concealed poorly are two different things.

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Sometimes you cannot control every factor in the equation. No need to go insulting people and calling them immature.

A few posters have had questions about Arizona. Arizona is an open carry state. No permit is required for open carry. You have to be 21 to CCW, and a permit is required for CCW. "Printing" is not illegal.

In answer to the original question, "I do not consent to any search."

This is a classic situation why all gun owners should support Open Carry movements in all states even if you personally never intend to Open Carry.

In VA Open Carry is 100% legal without any permit. If you legally can purchase a firearm you can legally open carry it right out of the store. So it is not possible to be arrested for printing because even if you weapon is accidentally exposed you are simply open carrying.

There is even a term "Virginia Tuck". Since you can't conceal carry into a restaurant that serves any alcohol (thanks to our governor for vetoing the bill that could have changed that) you can simply tuck shirt behind your CCW holster and walk in.

VA open carry laws apply to visitors also. Cities and localitites are prevented by state law from pre-emption so you don't have to run into a situation where you get "well you can't do that HERE".

You can never be "legally" be stopped for printing. A small but vocal minority of officers don't seem to understand/care what the law is. They generally harass people who open carry (other than themselves of course) rather than those accidentally "printing".

I belive Arizona is the same as in Wash or Oregon. If you are packing and its seen thats open carry and they can ask you for ID and to see your permit,you have no obligation to tell them you are armed or have a permit unless asked. Scotus ruled a while back though if they ask for ID for a permit and you walk off and ignore them they can haul you in to jail now though as refusing to show ID is now grounds to belive a crime is being commited.

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Not true. Please re-read the case. SCOTUS determined you must identify yourself (i.e give your name, address verbally). You are not required to show any ID.

Why? Some people don't have ID. Some people choose to not carry ID. For most people the only government ID they have is drivers license. The purpose of drivers license was to regulate driving not regulate citizens being outside their homes.

For a law requiring ID to have any purpose 3 things would need to happen
1) All person would need an ID (even visitors to country, tourist, etc)
2) All persons would be required to have there ID with them at all times.
3) It would need to be a crime to not have your ID (otherwise people could simply say "I left it at home" or "It was stolen today").

Think about this carefully. Do you want to live in a country where you need to have permission to simply leave your home? That you could be arrested for the crime of not having your documentation in order?

The very idea reminds me of Nazi Germany: "Papers please". Where attempting to travel without right documents was a crime in itself and could result in you going to jail or if you are unlucky a concentration camp.

Think about this carefully. Do you want to live in a country where you need to have permission to simply leave your home? That you could be arrested for the crime of not having your documentation in order?

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in a fair number of jurisdictions they used to have vagrancy laws. Often vagrants were defined as those who had no ID and had no money on them when stopped by police.

Just comply, and do it right now.

I'm a little confused, some of you sound like you are saying that you will do as you wish if a peace officer commands you to submit. This is very foolish, it may be a officer over response, but that is for a judge and a trial.

If a peace officer is in a lawful place, and thru his senses observes a potential breach of the peace, he has every right to exercise a remedy. If he sees a concealed weapon (printing) he has every right answer the questions of is it a "legal weapon", "is the subject allowed to carry it", and for that matter, disarm you for "officer safety" if the officer can articulate a reason.

As a citizen of whatever state "allows" you to legally carry, you have a obligation to the issuing authority to comply, not to escalate, not to cause a public breach of the peace. Just Comply, and do it right now!

Peace officers do not have a crystal ball to know the outcome of this encounter, to know your intent. Why would you not do as they wish and risk thru non-compliance a heightening of tension?

The point is for all of us to survive, try "to the best of your ability to comply" with peace officer commands, move slowly and deliberately. Understand that they will feed off of your behavior and response. After that if you have been injured, take remedy with the legal system.

Good Luck & Be Safe

what are your legal rights, what should you do?

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Your rights depend on the state you are in. But regardless, remember, he sees the printing of a firearm. He has the right to challange you, don't fight it, comply.
My advice, tell the officer you have a conceal carry permit. Don't reach for anything or put your hands in your pockets. Follow his instructions and don't make an issue of it. Satisfy him that you are carrying legally and that should be the end of it. Challange him and get cute, and you will only compound an innocent situation.

^
correct

If a peace officer is in a lawful place, and thru his senses observes a potential breach of the peace, he has every right to exercise a remedy.

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This is completely FALSE. When acting as an agent of the state, he has no rights whatsoever. He only has powers granted him by the legislature.

If a peace officer is in a lawful place, and thru his senses observes a potential breach of the peace, he has every right to exercise a remedy. If he sees a concealed weapon (printing) he has every right answer the questions of is it a "legal weapon", "is the subject allowed to carry it", and for that matter, disarm you for "officer safety" if the officer can articulate a reason.

As a citizen of whatever state "allows" you to legally carry, you have a obligation to the issuing authority to comply, not to escalate, not to cause a public breach of the peace. Just Comply, and do it right now!

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i don't know where to begin with the errors and in that post. i only have to obey LAWFUL orders of a police officer. there is no such law (at least in WA) called "officer safety". the cop cannot break the law in the name of "officer safety". i will comply with all LAWFUL orders given to me by a cop. you do not have to comply with anything and everything a cop demands, such as showing ID if open carrying or even a CWP. you definitely don't have to submit to any searches unless the officer has reasonable, articulable suspicion, probable cause, or a warrant.

people with your mentality are the reason cops become far too brazen and emboldened. stand up for yourself for pete's sake! stand up for your rights. you are not the cops' little puppet. remember, they are public servants. they work for you. not the other way around.

Bobby

i was always under the impression that if carrying concealed it needs to be concealed, crappy concealed carry is a violation of open carry, if you are carrying a gun "openly" then it needs to be completely visible. having your carry gun show does not constitute open carry even if open carry is legal you still screwed up

Anywaysssss, I think any reasonable police officer just wants to make sure you're not a criminal. I think once he/she sees your CCW, and you are straight up with them, you'll be just fine.

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So do you think it is reasonable for a police officer to pull over a driver just to make sure they're not a criminal? Do you think it is reasonable for a police officer to pull over a driver just to make sure they have a driver's license?

Unless a police officer has RAS that you have committed a crime, are committing a crime, or are about to commit a crime, the police officer is not allowed to detain you.

you do not have to comply with anything and everything a cop demands, such as showing ID if open carrying or even a CWP.

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Very true. In fact, when I'm OC'ing while on foot, I leave all my ID (including my CCW license) in the car. That way, if an LEO detains me and asks for ID, I truthfully tell him I don't have any ID. If he asks if I have a CCW license, I simply won't respond.

Some people might think such an actions only proves that I'm trying to be "difficult," but that is not my intention. I simply believe in standing up for my rights.

Bobarino

you must have your concealed pistol license in your immediate possession at all times .... and you must display it upon demand to any police officer ... failure to do so is a civil infraction..... what part of that do you not get?

I said - "and for that matter, disarm you for "officer safety" if the officer can articulate a reason" what part of that do you not get? Do you understand non-compliance and furtive movements?

If you are the subject of a FI, you need to comply for YOUR OWN safety, as I said earlier if you feel you have been wronged take it up in court latter, not on the street. Just Comply, and do it now!

You Said - "people with your mentality are the reason cops become far too brazen and emboldened. stand up for yourself for pete's sake! stand up for your rights. you are not the cops' little puppet." After 20+ years on the street in law enforcement, I am one of those guys, I was trying to keep you from being hurt or worse. :banghead: Do as you wish, it is not my problem, But please don't whine when you get manhandled. The words "you can't do that' I know my rights" is the biggest 1 liner on the street.

Good Luck & Be Safe

ilbob

You are correct the word "right" is miss applied here.

"If a peace officer is in a lawful place, and thru his senses observes a potential breach of the peace, he has the discretion established by state codes and department procedure to exercise a remedy."

So, Bob, the whole statement is not false, just the word right, right?

Hmmm.

In another thread, after being told he was too young to carry concealed, he said he might get creative.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=4572798&postcount=10

That kind of creativity can get you in a heap of trouble.

Sheriff, if you are carrying concealed under the legal age, you are jeopardizing your right to possess or carry a firearm for a long, long time.

Why don't you carry and shoot your guns in all the legally prescribed ways without getting creative? Then, when you're old enough, go for it. You do sound like you need to allow the maturation process to continue a while.

K