How can a cleaning rod damage the crown if it isn't steel?

Status
Not open for further replies.

jc89

Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2008
Messages
53
Location
California
Using a Tipton carbon fiber rod with bronze patchholder at the tip, I don't quite understand how cleaning from the barrel end could damage the crown since both of these materials are softer than steel. Could someone help explain this to me?
 
how could water carve the grand canyon if water is softer than rocks?
 
Just clean to the best of your abilities. Don't force things, take care, etc. Just don't start jamming it in and scratch the hell out of it. Understand that a bullet under explosive pressure is constantly being forced down the barrel and more than likely causing more long term wear than your cleaning unless you really suck at cleaning bores (which is kinda hard to do).
 
The carbon fiber rods seem to be very good, they don't get bent. Either they are straight or broken.

Use a proper rod guide and clean from the breech, that way your muzzle will be pretty safe.

Clean it from the muzzle very many times and you will soon see how working a rod of any kind through it can damage a muzzle.
 
Ok, the thing is I have an M39 and the cleaning from the breech comes short about 4" from the barrel. How would I reach the end of the bore so I can clean out all the surplus ammo nastiness? This last shooting trip I made 2 runs through the barrel end going towards the breech cuz the Tipton rod isn't long enough.
 
how could water carve the grand canyon if water is softer than rocks?

because the water carries small rocks which are as hard as the rock being eroded.


Keep your non steel cleaning rod clean don't be a total hamfist when cleaning and you'll never have an issue.

Clean it from the muzzle very many times and you will soon see how working a rod of any kind through it can damage a muzzle.

OH Really so I guess all Garands, M1A's, MAS49/56'es, BAR's, Rem 7600and7400's are total crap because they cannot be cleaned from the breach and all their bores have been ruined
 
Alumimum rods get steel filings embeded in them. THen when you run that rod along a steel surface, the rod acts like a file or a diamond drill bit, and wears down your barrel.

Therefore, steel cleaning rods are actually supposed to be better for your barrel than aluminum.

What I was told anyway.
 
Aluminum is the worst, especially two piece. SS or coated one piece rods are the way to go. I have no experience with the Carbon Fiber rods, but they are probably good too.
 
Alumimum rods get steel filings embeded in them. THen when you run that rod along a steel surface,

OK what in the world are you doing with your cleaning rod to expose it to steel filings. If you get steel filings punching your bore then your bbl was &^&^ before you started.

I just love how a cleaning rod will eat the rifling right out of a bbl whan pushed the "wrong" way but steel jacketed ammo won't hurt your bore even for 1000's of rounds
 
steel filings come from the bullet and any other metal parts that rub on metal parts inside your gun.

These are not large metal filings. little tiny metalic "dust".

The bullet doesn't rub on one spot on the edge of the crown like a bowed cleaning rod does when you push on it.
 
steel filings come from the bullet and any other metal parts that rub on metal parts inside your gun.

OK don't clean your gun from the breach either because this would work in both directions. According to you fellas you're just swapping crown damage for throat damage.

One is a lot easier to fix than another


This is like in the old days how in school we were told that if a tornado was coming you had to open the windows so the building wouldn't blow up from the air pressure change....Then someone actually thought about for more than a second and realized that. "HEY even if the building could explode the tornado will open the windows itself"


I'm not saying one cleaning method is better than another, I'm just saying that the potential for damage is grossly overstated
 
I'm not saying one cleaning method is better than another, I'm just saying that the potential for damage is grossly overstated

Yep,

I just love how a cleaning rod will eat the rifling right out of a bbl whan pushed the "wrong" way but steel jacketed ammo won't hurt your bore even for 1000's of rounds

and Yep.
 
Chuck the rods and get a cheap otis micro rifle pull through kit. It's the only kit I use with boretech eliminator and a copper-free nylon brush that screws into one end. Don't need rods in the slightest. Great for semi-autos too.
 
I don't quite understand how cleaning from the barrel end could damage the crown since both of these materials are softer than steel. Could someone help explain this to me?

You'd be amazed the things that will erode steel. In the automotive business, we see all the time how soft rubber seals will cut grooves in hardened steel crankshafts, output shafts, axle shafts, etc. Or a piece of rubber hose, insulated wire or plastic conduit rubbing through aluminum oil lines or intercooler pipes.
 
Get an Otis kit (flexible steel cable with plastic coating) or Patchworm (plastic cable) that pulls the patch through, and forget about rigid rods. I haven't used a rod on a rifle in >2 years, and my rifles have nice clean bores.
 
I had always heard that debris will stick to most any rod and that you always want a quality bore guide to keep the rod from touching the throat. Without the bore guide I don't think it much matters which end you start at and the muzzle would probably be better since as stated it is easier to fix. I have also heard my fair share of explanations as to why the crown means basically nothing and again even if it was "damaged" it may not hurt accuracy. I have seen too much info both ways to trust either side of that argument.

The problem I have with the pull through methods is that the cable is dragged on the rifling. Again how much truth there is that debris will erode the rifling/crown I don't know. I doubt it is much. If anything from a round was going to do major damage when you clean I would think taking another shot instead would have done much much more. A bullet makes a real tight "patch" as it is pushed down the bore and any debris that is going to erode the rifling is going to be much more pronounced. Still with that said I remove as much debris from the rod after each stroke as can be wiped off. I really can't see anything I do damage a bore but there are a lot of things I don't think should/could happen that do. Does the crown really get damaged? I doubt it but maybe.

I have seen testing where the tester smacked the crown with a punch, left a huge gouge, and the rifle shot better. I have seen the same test repeated by the same tester and results reversed. I have seen people cut barrels with a hacksaw at a 45* angle and have the same accuracy as before the test with that barrel. I tend to fall on the side that the crown doesn't mean much to the total accuracy of the rifle. Even though that is how I feel I can't help but worry I may be wrong and as such I still clean like everything I used could be ruining my bore/crown and do what I can to avoid any potential wear.
 
How can a lead and copper bullet go threw a steel plate?

becuase it can if you screw up it can and will happen. I have a rifle now that really needs to crown cleaned up. So now I have to go and buy a crown cutting tool or take it to a buddy and chuck it up in the lathe and fix it myself. If he will let me.
 
How can a lead and copper bullet go threw a steel plate?

because if it's several thousand ft lbs of kinetic energy. You getting that rough cleanin your bbl?

face it a cleaning rod cannot damage a bore unless you make it do so through unhappy conscript like rifle care. This applies to either direction of travel

What we've learned in this tread

a cleaning rod fed from the wrong end of a bbl will destroy the bore in a few strokes, going the other way is like mana from the gods for your bbl

an aluminum rod will spontaneously turn into a 3" round file even when left in a clean case in the closet

if you employ a cleaning rod properly it can cleave through steel much like Luke Skywalkers lightsaber

you simply can't clean certain rifles that don't provide for breach end cleaning, cleaning once the wrong way will destroy the bore

and when a tornado hits your house if you open the windows none will get broken
 
One of the materials left in a barrel after firing is glass. Yep, ground glass, put into primers to create the friction needed for firing. That glass can become embedded in soft metal or plastic cleaning rods and act like a file on the bore.

Now it takes a while, and probably isn't any more than a theoretical issue for most of us. But it is a good reason to never push a patch through the barrel, then pull it back through.

In cleaning from the muzzle, it is best to push the rod through, put a clean patch on the tip, then pull the patch through, at least the first pass. A muzzle protector doesn't hurt, either.

As for the steel rod, steel rods are softer than barrel steel, so are actually less of a problem than a brass or aluminum rod with dirt, crud and glass embedded in it.

Also, please avoid bore snakes. They sound good, but routinely break off in the barrel, then people try to drive them out, and get other stuff stuck, aaaaagh!

Jim
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top