Had to pull my 1911

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mtnwelder

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I've been a long time reader of "The High Road", but never posted before. I live in the eastern panhandle of West Virginia, surrounded by mostly woods and farmland.

I am an Owner Operator,(tractor trailer), and I decided to go to the house over the Labor Day weekend. Saturday evening, I didn't like what my wife was watching on the TV, so I went to my truck and started to listen to the XM radio. I had backed my truck next to my shop, directly in line with the walk in door. Something I usually don't do. It was about 7:30 PM, and since it was getting cooler I decided to roll my windows up. When I looked out the window, there were two guys getting ready to push in my walk in door. :cuss:

From my truck window to them was about five or six feet. They never saw me until I yelled. When the black guy saw me, his eyes got the size of silver dollars, and his hands went slowly up in the air! I had my Kimber Ultra Carry pointed right at his head!

I proceeded to tell the two of them how they were going to exit my property.
About ten minutes after they left, (they came from a trailer court just down the road), I rapid fired that little Kimber into the mound I use when sighting in my guns. My daughter had walked outside, and told me the trailer court got very quiet after hearing that little Kimber speak. Sunday and Monday, I did a lot of target practice.

Today, I called the owner of the trailer court and asked him to deliver a "message", if I caught them around again. He had already given them an eviction notice, and was waiting for the time period it takes to pass.

The last time I had any trouble out of the trailer court was 1997. A car followed my daughter with his lights off, just off of her bumper. I talked to the owner, and an eviction notice was given. 1997 problem solved.

I never thought of calling the police until this morning. I was so irritated it never entered my mind. What I was thinking was I wanted my full size Smith & Wesson 1911PD, instead of this Ultra Carry. The Smith has never hiccuped, and I still didn't fully trust the Ultra Carry. The Smith has been on my side since.

Mtnwelder
 
Have you had problems with your Ultra Carry? Is it a Series I or later?

My Series I has always been 100% as long as I use non-malfunctioning mags.

Glad to hear things didn't come down to having to pull the trigger. Does West Virginia have decent protection laws for the property owner if you do have to shoot? I would think they would, but I have never researched it.
 
Sorry you had to pull your gun, buy glad you didn't have to shoot anyone.

I will say that I think rattling off a magazine after the fact was a bit foolish, but that's just one guy's opinion.
 
mtnwelder:

This is one of the worst THR threads I have read. You are perhaps not out of the woods in legal terms. I would be concerned about what you did. It sounds to me that you would benefit from a review course on firearms safety.

Respectfully,

Doc2005
 
I think you handled it poorly. If you are in a place where shooting is not acceptable due to community standards or legal reasons (town ban), you are building a case against yourself.

"We were going on our usual walk and we walked by this big truck that was parked next to our normal path, and then this crazy looking guy jumped out with his Kimber Ultra Carry pointed right at his head! I put my hands up and my eyes became the size of silver dollars. We went back home because we didn't feel like walking any more, and then we heard a bunch of shots. That's why we called you, officer."

You're lucky it didn't turn out this way - very lucky. You also showed your hand way too soon I think.

I am glad everything sort of turned out okay, with no one getting shot, but I don't think you were right in assuming they were going to vandalize or rob your truck, and you had no pretense to draw on them as far as I can tell. Looks like you're kind of eager to pull a gun on someone to me.

I don't mean this as a flame, but this kind of sounds like it would be posted in some insane "45 vs 9mm" thread. I, for one, find the details you may have left out - such as why you drew or why you thought they were about to steal (and for that matter why you don't know the meaning of "Reasonable force") - WAY more important than "I used my Kimber Ultra Carry! I pointed it at some guy's head and then I shot a dirt mound!"
 
I rapid fired that little Kimber into the mound I use when sighting in my guns.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a perfectly acceptable rural firing area to me. It's his property, who cares if it's within hearing distance of a trailer community? Assuming he's not in a township that forbids all discharge, he's perfectly within his rights to fire the Kimber in a location where he has in the past, on his own property. I see no obvious safety violations here, he had a target and a backstop.
 
There's "legal," then there's "looks really bad to a jury"...not to mention that at least in NC, where you and I are from (addressing the poster above me, btw) the raison d'thread is illegal no matter how you spin it.
 
Conwik, I don't take your concerns personally. This is an area where we all shoot. I have a range in the back yard, my neighbor is alway practicing for competitions, and most of the neighbors shoot and hunt.

I never got out of the drivers seat of the truck. The two of them came through my woods, and through my shooting range, (posted). There is no access to this area without climbing over my fence. That is why my range is located there. I have ran it over and over in my mind. Except for reporting it to the police, I wouldn't have handled it any differently.

Since I posted, I talked to a couple of my neighbors and have found these two have been steeling gasoline and diesel fuel. They know its them but haven't been able to catch them. I know my neighbors. They will be stopped.
 
Let's see:

At night (or at least near dark), two guys attempt to break into his shop. He pulls a gun, since there are two of them (which constitutes lethal force in a fight on their part) and he does not know whether or not they're armed. They leave.

He fires his gun into the berm where he normally shoots. This is not illegal since it's on his property and he did so after they left. (void where prohibited, the opinions in this post do not reflect the high road's opinions).

As for gun safety: that's total garbage. Gun safety is for range situations, general handling, etc ... not fights. At that point, gun safety is the least of your worries. If one has the presence of mind for it---great, but dangerous stuff is going to happen in a fight. People may even get shot!

In my opinion, he did show his gun a bit early. HOWEVER...he did not know if they were armed. People can draw and shoot very, very quickly, so perhaps it was the right move. My thought would have been to covertly draw the gun and keep it pointed in their direction below the level of the window. That way, the gun could have been employed very quickly, yet was out of sight.

Then again, I wasn't there and I don't live in that area. We don't know what the crime situation is.

EDIT:

I see no fault now. They went through his property and climbed a fence. It's very clear they were up to no good.

I would have had them spead-eagled on the ground at gun point, waiting for police.

Sorry, but you're too nice.
 
Yeah,

I have to agree, you erred in several places. I agree with pulling and holding on them. I then would have called the police and filed a report asap. Get the authorities on your side as soon as possible.

If you were going shooting the next day, then great.... but to send a message? Not a good idea as it does send a message... to a jury.
 
Home Owner stopped robbery possible rape, Little while after decided time to practice, More than likely this guy lives Outside city limits so no problem there.

Only one thing he prolly should have done is call and made a report.
 
Not knowing the laws of W. Virginia, but from the info I've read : dusk or dark, large (multi-acre?)rural property where solicitors don't typically go door-to-door, reports of theft from the neighbors, two strange guys lurking on the property, who did not drive themselves onto the property, family on the other side of where they were lurking.

I agree that maybe you pulled the Kimber a tad early, and sure the police probablly could have been called, but really I can't say I would have handled the situation much differently. What's important is that in the end the situation was diffused without incident. No one was hurt, the BGs were evicted and all is well.

I think it's easy for us to second guess people when we don't have all the info or know the mood of the incident, and sure, had he shot first and asked questions later, I could easily ridicule, but that didn't happen...except to the mound.
 
Everyone left without any extra holes in them. Well done and go on you for protecting you, your's, and your property.
 
When I looked out the window, there were two guys getting ready to push in my walk in door.
Click to expand...

Am I the only one that read that line? The OP caught the guys in the process of trying to break into his shop!

hot, but I don't think you were right in assuming they were going to vandalize or rob your truck,
Click to expand...

What more would they have had to do before the OP was correct in assuming they were about to rob him?

Conwict, is it possible that you skipped over the above before posting your response?
 
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I second the "You did fine"s. If it had been me, they'd have heard some AK and 12guage too just to make sure everyone understood where theyt stand.
 
Here in SE Iowa, if the police were called, they would drive by and wave. Been there, done that. Private property, means private property, if you don't know the owner and or have permission, stay out!!
 
The way you describe your location, I assume you live in a rural area where shooting is GTG. That would be the only issue I see and, if it's like IN, you can shoot outside of most municipalities .

As far as the BG's, good job!! If I caught strangers pushing in a door of a building on my property, you better believe they wouldn't hear me until a gun was in their face. There is no way you are going to convince me not to employ a means of lethal force when my families lives are on the line.
 
My only question is, when you caught them in the act, and had them stopped in their tracks why did you instruct them to leave?

Hold 'em, call the cops and have them hauled off. Get a conviction, save your neighbors the trouble of being the next ones hit.

JMHO...
 
If the property is posted you had every right to warn them off even if your warning was a bit more forceful than some others. If I caught two dudes I didn't know going into my barn after dark I dam sure would have pulled on them. Where I come from, trespassing on posted, fenced property and illegal entry definately equals probable cause to believe they were up to no good.
 
borch, I agree. I would have most likely held them for the police. Like anything, hindsight is 20-20. No holes in anybody, no shots fired, could have been worse.
-Justin
 
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