An everyday incident....

bogie: Uh... If that's a prime criteria, just wait until you get old enough to realize that a fistfight hurts, because if you're up against someone who doesn't realize that one simply -must- play by the rules, the first thing you'll notice is that you'll be on the ground with a boot in your face. Repeatedly.

I am unwilling to engage an attacker with fists.

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I’m with you, my friend. I’m too old for that kind of crap!

Yeah... When you get older, all the old stuff hurts or otherwise bothers you just at random... I managed to get my nose broken a few times, and I now really, really hate allergy season.

I think everyone has friends or acquaintances that fit the following description: they will take on anyone at any time if they are being threatened.

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I personally try to avoid people like that. They get you into trouble. Because they feel threatened, and next thing you know, there's violence.

Violence is bad.

I like peace.

We've got a strange dichotomy here, but I think the older guys will understand, and a bunch the younger guys will scratch their heads and decide I'm a wussie.

I'll walk away from a fight. I'll try to talk my way out of it. I'll apologize for imagined slights. Why? It doesn't matter. I'll probably never see the offended person again anyway.

And I really, really don't want to have to shoot someone.

It ain't like in the movies.

It ain't like on TV.

Not only do you ruin the poor idiot's day, you basically ruin your own. You -will- get booked, fingerprinted, and likely charged with something. You -will- get to hire a lawyer, unless you can only afford a public defender, who likely will tell you to plead guilty to something, because they have a date later on in the day...

When you carry a gun legally, you surrender the right to defend your honor over frivolous things. That means that when Bubba shoves you in the chest down at Joe's Bar because you noticed that his tramp-stamped girlfriend is wearing a purple thong and no bra, you smile, apologize, and tell him that he's a lucky man (whether you mean it or not...).

Yeah, he just assaulted you. But if you can avoid violence, do so. Up until when you can no longer avoid it.

Oops... And another thing to remember... Look at little Miss Mary Jane Rottencrotch's past history before going out with her... There are more than a few girls out there who enjoy making their boyfriends fight to defend their honor... She ain't worth it. She's gonna sleep with Jody anyway, so why expend the effort?

I'm only 21, and have the mindset of an older man. I avoid fights. I can be ornery, but I know when it's gonna lead to something stupid and shut my mouth.

Remember that car beats gun, your car can and will be used as a weapon in self defense. though it may be harder to prove with no witnesses.

All the dancing and rolling around martial arts stuff in the world isn't going to do a whole heck of a lot in a street fight against more than one person...

Situational awareness is your best asset.

Discretion is another.

Now get back to work. Because life ain't the movies, and unless you devote a large portion of your spare time to a chop-socky hobby, the first 20 year old with 50 pounds and 4" height on you to come along is gonna take you apart.

Canadians are basic environmentalists, and black bears, brown bears and grizzlies have to eat. Arming their food would not be fair and might create another endangered species.I'm a Texan and here most everyone is armed, in fact most Texans will lend you a gun should you not have one on you.

Martial Arts teaches more that fancy moves. It teaches you mindset. You will be taught how and when to engage. I have been teaching it for over 20 years to mostly women and children and I can say that most of my students lost their fear of confrontations.

I really get tired of people saying negative things about Martial Arts when they have no first hand experience with it.

If taught right and learned right then it will help the original OP with his confidence and fear of any negative contact.


Oh and bogie, I would rather take on more than 1 in a street fight. I teach that you just hit, kick, bite or whatever anything that is not attached to you. Your enemies have to hunt for their target to make sure they do not hit their partners in the fight. This hesitation will help you.

Your world of ak-a-dame-ya and artzze stuff HAS DONE NOTHING for your mental and physical the well being.

You don't have the confidence to take a 'hit' ...did you ever play a 'mans' sport: Soccer, Hockey, Football, Basketball...

Do you run, lift weights...ANYTHING that represents being a male?

NOT MACHO...but male.

Bully's, in a way are hunters they smell or see a weakness and they pounce...any of the above would have conditioned your mind set to see this or what's coming next.

Quite frankly mental toughness and discipline are required today more so than ever. Today being a victom is to be proud.

Once you realize you got balls incidents as you presented above won't really matter.

Your issue is not about resolving a conflict with a 'gun' but handling conflict with an agressor.

You reference to M-Arts... and Judo....is great but CONDITIONING is more important. And by conditioning I mean endurance and the willingness to take a HIT...and so far you've done neither...in you previous years.

Change your mind set! And changing your mind set will help all other aspects in your world of ak-a-dame-ya and artzze stuff....


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""there is no shame in fear


IT's how you perform when afraid that counts""....this is great!

How many years does this competence take? How many years of obsessive paranoid labor and training?

Tell you what. Let's talk about practical efficacy. I know two guys who used to have a standing offer - They will walk down an alley. They'll be wearing shorts, no shirts, and will each have a fanny pack with a sizable sum of cash in it. They'll also be carrying softball bats. You can start from the other end of the alley, armed with any less than lethal weapon of your choice. Your goal: The cash. Your health insurance better be paid up.

John, you reading this? Does that offer still stand after the stroke?

"less than lethal weapon "

a squit gun full of liquid drano, a glass of acid. a naked woman or two....

Quote:
your world of ak-a-dame-ya and artzze stuff....

uh oh...
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So I can't sphell....

HelplessCanadian said:

Instead of working I'm looking at local jiu jitsu trainers on the web and imaging how those places must smell like feet. I really don't want to join that kind of place although i agree, as some have said, it would probably help with confidence.

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May I suggest Pool Cues, Beer Bottles, and Baseball Bats, by Marc "Animal" MacYoung? It has some interesting comments.

bogie said:

Uh... If that's a prime criteria, just wait until you get old enough to realize that a fistfight hurts, because if you're up against someone who doesn't realize that one simply -must- play by the rules, the first thing you'll notice is that you'll be on the ground with a boot in your face. Repeatedly.

I am unwilling to engage an attacker with fists.

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You completely missed the point there. It's not about starting fist fights. It's about having the right frame of mind for handling fear and defending yourself. If given the choice of defending your life with your hands or a gun you'd obviously choose the gun. But if you are attacked while unarmed and are so completely terrified than you cannot fight back with your hands then you might not have the right mindset for carrying a handgun. It's one thing to sit behind a keyboard and talk about blasting down bad guys but if you're caught in a dark alley with your pants around your ankles (figuratively) will you be able to effectively draw your handgun and fire it at the guy? Or will you be the guy who freezes with terror and just complies with demands? I typically associate the latter with folks who would refuse to defend themselves with their hands if that's all they had. And that is exactly how the OP described himself.

Well, unarmed, I'd do my best to cripple or kill someone with my hands and feet, and anything else in the area, such as walls, stairs, curbs, whatever... Because that's what I know how to do. I suck at boxing or fistfighting. But grabbing hold, and twisting in odd directions? No problem. Grabbing hold, and bouncing off hard objects? No problem.

Fistfights are for people who are still not old enough to vote. Or they're for movies.

Welcome to the High Road.

But....no, you're not helpless. Not unless you want to be.

Hawk posted a link to Lawdog's thoughts on Combat Mindset. Read it, read it again, read the comments that follow. That's what you're aiming for.

Jujitsu won't do you a blink of good until you're well into your black belt. As many on this list know, my youngest son was attacked by a gang of perps in a neighborhood park two years ago in January. Robbed, pistol-whipped, beaten, kicked, pistol shoved in his mouth, then kicked and beaten some more. As he staggered away, the perp shot at him, just for good measure. Thankfully he missed (or he may have shot into the ground or the air just for effect).

He was a student of kung fu, but not terribly advanced. And he told me later, "Mom, the one thing I remembered was what you told me about not fighting back, that I wasn't ready. And it probably saved my life." Yes, it probably did.

If you want to learn martial arts for the exercise, or for the general lift it will give you overall in self confidence to be successful at something that takes REALLY hard work, great. But don't look on it as a way to keep yourself safe.

You are not helpless! You have a brain, you can learn situational awareness, you can start to think about how to avoid trouble. You may always have more of a fear response than some; so what? It's what you do in the moment that matters, not how long you lay awake shaking later on that night (just like everyone else, but that part's not talked about much )

Springmom

Boxing is just a tool in the box. I'd rather keep it on the table instead of just throwing it out. If you don't have a gun or a problem occurs with yours, are you going to twist the bad guy into a pretzel? What if he is stronger than you? How are you going to toss him around and into walls? What if you are left with nothing but the option of trying to knock him out so you can get away? You going to tell him that you're too old for this and don't wish to play anymore? You can't just grab your football, announce you are going home, and expect the game to end. Violent confrontations don't always go as planned.

Which is why I prefer to have the option of a lethal force tool. Because I don't really wanna try to joint a Samoan...

But the best offense is to not be in that situation in the first place.

Samoans don't move very quickly. Just run.

The further north you get in New England, the more gun tolerant you'll find the local govts. There is much more liberty in Maine, NH, and Vermont than in Mass., R.I., and Conn.

Like dbones I'm a bit tired of folks putting down martial arts who have no first hand experience with them. Martial arts are a tool for self defense. Firearms are a tool for self defense. A softball bat is a tool for self defense. The tools for self defense by and large are not exclusive of each other. In other words, knowing hand to hand combat skills doesn't mean you can't wield a softball bat. Having a softball bat handy doesn't mean you can't have a pistol on your belt.

We all go through our lives in relative safety. We are not attacked every day. Nevertheless, most folks on this forum think about personal protection and self defense and to a greater or lesser degree prepare for it as well. I ask those who disparage martial arts...

If you find yourself in a self defense situation, how many tools would you like available to help you survive the situation?

One? Two? Three?

An actively training martial artist has one tool with him/her everywhere. Is it the only tool they can or will have? No. Is it the best tool? Not for every situation, no. But it is a tool. I won't presume to tell anybody they must learn martial arts or be unsafe, but I will assert the more tools you have for self defense when the crap hits the fan the better off you are.

In addition, martial arts training can provide you with options for less than lethal response to a confrontation. If you find yourself in a one-on-one confrontation with an unarmed individual of about your age and size do you really want to have to shoot him to avoid a beating? Are you sure? I sure as heck don't. I'm not into killing folks (even if they are @ssholes) and I'm sure not into the emotional, legal, and financial repercussions of such an action. If you don't know how to fight with your hands, your handgun might be the only choice you have because if you lose against this unarmed guy he suddenly can become an armed guy because you are no longer in the position to defend your handgun.

Many mentions in this discussion have been made about mindset. Mindset is number one. I totally agree. Truth is, if you don't have adequate mindset and determination, you can't win even if you are adequately armed. When I teach unarmed self defense in a martial arts class, the first topics are situational awareness, retreat to safety is the first response if possible, avoiding a potentially dangerous situation is a legitimate behavior, and use of improvised weapons. I also talk about fighting to win and there is no "fair" in a fight on the street. Unarmed combat is about mindset. Read the link provided to LawDog on mindset...now add unarmed fighting skills.

LawDog:

Long-time readers of this blog know that I am firmly of the opinion that any man or woman has only one weapon.

That weapon is the human mind.

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Martial arts properly taught is a sharpening of the only weapon we have and it is a tool we can carry into every environment we might find ourselves in. It is no concern of mine if you don't train in martial arts. I think that is a perfectly reasonable and rational choice.

Stating "All the dancing and rolling around martial arts stuff in the world isn't going to do a whole heck of a lot in a street fight against more than one person..." and generally disparaging training to fight with ones hands as "...years of obsessive paranoid labor and training?" is just an exhibition of ignorance.

Stating "I know two guys who used to have a standing offer - They will walk down an alley. They'll be wearing shorts, no shirts, and will each have a fanny pack with a sizable sum of cash in it. They'll also be carrying softball bats. You can start from the other end of the alley, armed with any less than lethal weapon of your choice. Your goal: The cash. Your health insurance better be paid up." is just a silly challenge. How does setting up a challenge stacking the odds heavily against any challenger relate to options for self defense? I could counter with "I know two guys who used to have a standing offer - They will walk down an alley. They'll be wearing no shorts, no shirts, and will each have a pair of 5 carat earrings in their ears. They'll also be carrying full auto AK-47's. You can start from the other end of the alley, armed with any caliber 5 shot snubby of your choice. Your goal: The earrings. Your burial insurance better be paid up."

Let's talk about practical efficacy. I'm a 47 year old guy who trains in martial arts on a regular basis. I might not be able to take on any two given thugs I might meet while unarmed in a back alley...but...I have a lot better chance now than when I was a 27 year old guy who didn't train regularly.

Sounds practical to me.

I wouldn't let it get to you too much. You can't let a single psycho change your self image that much - it's no different than being attacked by a wild animal. Most people would be surprised and scared. Being prepared for another event is another matter. A self defense course would be good. Keeping an inexpensive kids baseball glove (as a cover story to a constable) and a good aluminum baseball bat in the rear floor of the car is another option.

I have a habit of pulling over in a safe to park area and let what may happen, happen. Then again, I am 6'4" and 300 lbs, with a good amount of military training and experiance. I don't put up with BS.

Bullies and heathens are in every town and country, but thay are kept at bay when a populace is able to defend themselves. You see, the thuggs that like to intimidate and assault folks are cowards unless they are stoned or psycho. When "lawmakers" make it comfortable for criminals, they are more likely to ply their "trade". You are very fortunate to not have to defend yourself during your life time, but being prepared is no more nutty or evil than owning a fire extinguisher to protect your home or car from fire. Much like a fire extinguisher, if you need a gun, nothing will take it's place.