Why you love .45colt?

1858 said:

(.44 Magnum 1894 has a much faster twist rate = not good for heavier bullets)

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I think you might've meant the 1894 has a slower twist rate, which isn't great for heavier bullets. The Marlin 1894 has a 1:38 twist rate.

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/1894Centerfire/1894.asp

I have the 1894P and I wish it did have a faster twist rate.

Ed

Good Post Edrice

Originally Posted by golden
Oh, did somebody mention self-defence. I hope you are limiting this debate to double action handguns. I get sick when I see someone pushing single actions for self defense.

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Everybody has an "opinion" - funny how everybody who disagrees is always wrong.

Lets see how sick this makes you...

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/115649...er_bob_munden/

Ed

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Great post - man that guy is fast.

I think you might've meant the 1894 has a slower twist rate, which isn't great for heavier bullets. The Marlin 1894 has a 1:38 twist rate.

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edrice, sorry about that. I meant that the 1:38 twist rate is too slow for heavier bullets compared to the 1:16 in the .45 Colt ... good catch.

Wrong
1858,

You assume much and are wrong.

My Long Colt experience has been limited to my S&W model 25. I only use standard pressure loads, so it is not a problem.


Check with the AMMO COMPANIES as to how strong the .45 Long Colt rim is. I believe it was STARLINE BRASS who said they make a strengthed rim .45 Long Colt case just for carbines. Regular factory ammo is the same, weak rimmed case it has always been.
Put a .44 magnum case side by side with .45 Long Colt and say the rim is not stronger.

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I guess the Remington brass I'm shooting through my 1894 didn't get the memo!! Who cares if the rim of a .44 is stronger if the rim of a .45 is strong enough?

I really like the nostalgia and the fact that it will reliably knock down what ever I need knocked down. I have a lever-action rifle, and it's a tack-driver, in the same caliber. A nice moderate recoil, easy to reload, lots of repeat reloadings in the cases as the pressure isn't high compared to "hot" rounds (for my purposes anyway).

A Single Action Army, even if it's a copy of the original, is a cool revolver.

LD

I am in love with the .45 Colt because it is so versatile.
An easy plinker if loaded so or a bear stopper if need be.

325gr RNFP loaded for bear and a 200gr LSWC loaded for paper.

I like 45 Colt & 44 Mag

I enjoy shooting both calibers for general plinking and hunting. I have a Ruger Blackhawk Bisley and a Birdshead Vaquero along with a Uberti 1873 rifle in 45 Colt. And a Taurus Raging Bull with a Winchester 94AE in 44 Mag. What I really like about both calibers is you can load mild to extremely powerful loads in both and they still are very accurate.

Edrice

Ed,

Your point is? Bob MUNDEN is a professional trick shooter. Are you able to draw and hit two targets as fast as he can. How about half as fast? Do you know of anyone else who can shoot a single action like that?

Jerry MICULIK shoots S&W revolvers in competition and can outshoot 99 % percent of the shooters who use a 1911.
Should all the 1911 fans drop the old slabside and get a S&W N frame?

I will stick with a nice semi-auto. A double revolver in an effective caliber would also do fine, they are just too heavy most of the time. Try wearing a S&W 681 on your hip for 14 hours and you will discover the real reason GLOCKS have taken over so much of the police market.

Single actions have NO PLACE in self defense in can get an alternative.

Jim

1. My first shot with a single-action is just as fast as with a DA. Followup shots are not slow, just not as fast. I'm not a great shot, just used to shooting SA's.
   
2. If you pull a DA revolver on a bad guy without cocking it, if he's fast he can grab it away from you by the cylinder and you can't fire it. With a SA, by the time he hears the "click-i-ty-click", if he tries to grab it you just pull the trigger and he draws back a nub.
   
3. If you ever have to reload in a self-defense situation with a big-bore handgun, you are screwed anyway because one or two shots is all you'll have time for and they should have done the job.

(I'd say it's a tie, and the tie goes to whatever kind of gun you are used to shooting)

Try wearing a S&W 681 on your hip for 14 hours and you will discover the real reason GLOCKS have taken over so much of the police market.

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Funny - back in the mid-80s when we were transitioning to semi-autos I don't remember weight being one of the criteria. Greater ammo capacity was the seller. Glock has the edge on the market for 2 reasons; 1. They have a good product at a reasonable cost (no argument there). 2. They have a good marketing plan. However, the numbers of officers who carry them can be misleading - since they are issue weapons at most departments using them - the officers have no choice in what they carry.

Single actions have NO PLACE in self defense in can get an alternative.

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I disagree here also - its choice. If a person is comfortable with the technology, so be it. A 45 traveling at 850 FPS out of a revolver will have the same affect as a 45 traveling 830 FPS out of a semi auto. Personally, I don't want to be hit with either.

golden said:

Your point is?

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It's not healthy to get yourself so sick about things over which you have no control.

golden said:

Bob MUNDEN is a professional trick shooter. Are you able to draw and hit two targets as fast as he can.

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Nope.

golden said:

How about half as fast?

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Nope.

golden said:

Do you know of anyone else who can shoot a single action like that?

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Nope.

golden said:

Jerry MICULIK shoots S&W revolvers in competition and can outshoot 99 % percent of the shooters who use a 1911.
Should all the 1911 fans drop the old slabside and get a S&W N frame?

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Can you show me anywhere I said anything like that? Not if they don't want to. I'm also a 1911 fan and that's my first choice. But I also have a S&W N-frame in .45 colt/.45 acp, which I certainly wouldn't be afraid to use either.

golden said:

I will stick with a nice semi-auto.

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Me too.

golden said:

A double revolver in an effective caliber would also do fine, they are just too heavy most of the time. Try wearing a S&W 681 on your hip for 14 hours and you will discover the real reason GLOCKS have taken over so much of the police market.

Single actions have NO PLACE in self defense in can get an alternative.

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For yourself. I'm not about to dictate to others what they must or must not use. We're all grown-ups here, and people can decide for themselves, even if you deem it not a good choice. While it's probably not a bad idea to advise against such methods of self-defense (without the proper training), absolutists statements like that have NO PLACE in gun discussions and furthermore, it's just not worth getting all sick over.

Would you advise Bob Munden that he has NO PLACE defending himself with a single-action agaisnt you using a 1911?

Ed

BTW, while we're on the subject of double-action revolver vs single-action, I haven't put much practice into this, but I'm almost betting that with enough practice, using the left-thumb cocking technique on a single action, that one could be just about as fast as with a double-action, and heck of a lot more accurate using the single-action trigger pull vs the double-action trigger pull.

I'd never be as fast as Bob Munden, nor would I even bother to try, but in times past I have tried the left-thumb cocking method (for right-handers, of course) and it's easy to release bullets at a higher rate. I could see, without having to devote am enormous amount of time to practice, one could quickly get up to speed on single action. The downside is that you'd need both hands for sure, but you could still cock with right thumb.

I've tried it and one disadvantage I have is that my Bisley Vaquero has the lowered hammer spur. It can still be done, but I imagine it would be a little more effective with the higher spur and the standard Vaquero and other similar pattern single-actions.

Anyone ever put much energy into this?

Ed

I have shot a good bit a shooting buddy's .45Colt Ruger BlackHawk and really like it. myself I have a 625 in .45acp that I enjoy - if I didn't own it I likely would have a .45 Colt revolver with a lever rifle companion. the Colt round is all over the .acp round for black bear hunting or hog hunting due to the heavy slugs that can be loaded.
but I have taken a hog with my Marlin Camp .45acp - one shot, dropped and thrashed maybe a minute I moved closer and was on target for a follow-up shot and it stiffened and quivered and 'lights out'. +P loaded 230gr Golden Sabre over Power Pistol through the eye into skull.

Take a look at what Spencer Hoglund does with two single-action revolvers -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpADRddRO7E

In this 2nd one, you can see him cocking it with his left thumb -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8bJ3TLEbZw&NR=1

golden and I could both have our 1911s and both be shot up.

Ed

Why...

Who knows. But I have lusted for a 6" barreled Clot Anaconda in 45 Colt for a loooooong time.

Edrice

Ed,

It really does not matter how good Bob MUNDEN is. Almost no one can duplicate his shooting ability. For someone without that skill, then the question is what to use.
I have advocated that if you have been trained by say the military, police or a quality private trainer, to go with a semi-auto. It is quicker to reload, has more firepower and in many cases is easier to shoot well and conceal.
For people without experience, go with a good double action revolver.
Single actions have no place for self defense.
Most police organizations do not even want you to shoot single if you carry a revolver. It sets you up for a law suit later on. Not to mention that if you blow the hammer cocking, the gun could discharge unintentionally.
In a defense situation, everything will be against you. You are not in control or you would not be there in the first place. You are attacked or about to be. You are scared, your heart will race, you may be confused. Do you really think that adding the problems associated with a single action make the situation better.
I have seen people draw their gun and forget to fire on the range. I personally reholstered my SIG 226 without decocking the hammer during one qualification, yet I had shot the gun for months and knew the drill.
It gets much worse on the street.

If you want to shoot tin cans or hunt, single actions are fine, but not if using it to defend yourself is a possibility.

Oh, to zxcvbob, if you ever try that trick on the street with grabbing a cylinder, remember what the expert (I think Mas AYOOB) said, just pull the gun back, then pull the trigger! He was talking about the old tale of shoving your hand against the muzzle of a 1911 to push it out of lock and disable it. I think it will work just fine with my 681.

PRM, when my agency went with the BERETTA 96. Our S&W model 13's actually weighed less. A lot of officers complained. It is a tremendous gun, but it is heavy. It was replaced by the H&K P2000.
In the 1980's, departments could choose steel or aluminum guns. Afterwords, most went to aluminum (RUGER, SIG and SMITH & WESSON) or to the GLOCK.
Very few agencies stayed with steel. Weight was the reason or aluminum and plastic would not be almost the only choices today.

Last think, I would pass on the 1911. I am a BERETTA 96 fan.


Jim

S.A.

Golden, you REALLY need to spend some time on the range practicing with a S.A. But maybe FIRST you should read "SIX GUNS" by Kieth. But hey, what did he know? You may have been "taught" all kinds of things in LEO classes, but he lived it!

Good day to all and stay safe,......and check out that book!

Single actions have no place for self defense.

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Unless it is all that is at hand.

I often carry a single action revolver out and about in the woods. Should I find myself in a self defense situation you can bet that I will find a place for it.

hawk45,

Thanks for asking the question. A Blackhawk .44 mag was a the top of my "to buy next" list. The .45 Colt was further down on my list, and was just moved to the top.

And thanks to all of the responders; excellent arguments for the .45.

Three words:

Big freakin' holes!

Three words:

Big freakin' holes!

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+1000


I have a Blackhawk convertable that my dad gave me for Christmas. Taped on the case for it is a target with one ragged 1 1/4" hole in it caused by 6 200 gr RNFP going at around 800 FPS from 25 yards away. The best group I ever made with a handgun. Love that gun and love that round.

My biggest dream is to get my hands on a S&W 25 in 45 Colt.

Just want to know

How many on this thread have read Kieth's book? He also had another I believe titled "Hunting" Just wanted to ask.

I have 2 Keith books. I have read them. I gave another Keith book to a friend for Christmas one year too.

Sixguns and He!!, I Was There!

Disclaimer: I am NO expert in guns but I can and could defend myself with my S/A revolvers.

What do you think people did 100 plus years ago when they defended themselves with OLD single action revolvers and lever action rifles?

True, they are not double action revolvers and/or semi automatic pistols.

I think that it depends on how OFTEN you shoot them (ANY gun!) and HOW WELL YOU SHOOT THEM. It is called SKILL, practice, using your common sense and the brain that the good Lord gave you if you choose ANY gun for self defense.

I think that it depends on the person even if that 'person' is not a FAMOUS shooter.

I would trust my life with my Single Action Revolvers and with my Lever Action Rifles even though I have owned and still own double action revolvers and a semi automatic pistol. I am going to 2 to 3 calibers now.

NO offense to anyone but a 'blanket' statement about s/a revolvers and so forth gets my 'goat'. I would rather have someone shoot a single action revolver and/or a lever action rifle WELL than someone who NEVER uses or practices with any other gun and that includes FILL IN THE BLANK GUN. :banghead:

You can find many people with ALL kinds of guns but if they NEVER use them or rarely use them... what the H would it do if they needed to USE them for self defense? Heck, I would trust a person who used 1, 2 to 5 guns more than someone who owns a 'collection' and Never Shoots. I would trust a man, like my late husband and my groom/husband, who SHOOTS his self defense guns often even though one man owned FEW guns = my late husband and my husband owns 'many' guns but has scaled back some. BOTH men shot their guns and they were not just collectors or qualified once or twice a year. Both were/are GREAT shots too.

I shot my former Glock Model 19C well from the gitgo. I shoot my RUGER single action revolvers well. I learned on a handgun - 357Magnum. I shot double actions well too. My forte' is UP close and personal shooting = personal defense shooting. I can hit a gong @ 50 yards sometimes too. I am NO long distance or FAR away shooter. I would trust my lever action rifles too if that is all that I had.

It depends on the person and the SKILL of that person. I would trust a person who only had one gun but knew how to shoot that ONE GUN well no matter WHAT style it was - male or female.

I think that I posted about my 45Colt aka long colt on this THREAD too.

Catherine

PS

PS:

I think that self defense guns and 'issues' are up to the INDIVIDUAL too.

If a person has weakness or an old injury or arthritis and they can't rack a slide on some semi automatic pistols without it being a pain IF they can do it at all in SOME types of pistols... SAID pistol would not be worth jack squat to that specific individual too!

Catherine

Catherine, you hit the nail on the head re shooting what you have. An elderly, and quite frail, good range friend of mine is a case in point. He feels threatened much of the time in his own home. It has become a dangerous low income area. He tried various approaches to the semi-auto cocking problem, settling on a re-sprung Berretta 92, as he could barely use it.

I tried the larger calibers - .45 ACP & .45 Colt - on him - both SA & DA. Too much. He feels barely competent with .38s, keeping a few loaded about his home. He eventually said goodbye to his 12 gauge double barrel 'coach' gun - and got a 9mm AR. He feels better, now, even if the Berretta is a chore for him to cock.

It's tough watching a friend age this way - and this rapidly. Even more sad watching him selling off the guns he can no longer operate (He has no heirs.). When I met him, he had some nice pieces. It is a fact of life - no matter how we fight it.

I think my barometer will be my 625MGs - when I feel .45 Colt in them is 'too much', I'll start the 'sale' here. Hopefully, at 60, I still have many good blasting years ahead of me... but, watching him has heightened my concern.

Stainz