Is there anything the .40 S&W can do that the .45acp can't?

The .40 can fit in a pistol that fits in my pocket. The .45... so far, only the AMT Back-up... .

Comparing similar weighted bullets, this is not true.
180 gr. .40 is traveling 862 fps at 100 yards.
185 gr .45ACP is traveling at 860 fps at 100 yards.
from Hornady chart.

If physics haven't changed lately, objects fall the earth at the same rate regardless of mass. It each bullet above leaves the barrel at the same time they will reach the target about the same time at the same height. Of course, comparing a 230gr. .45ACP vs. a 155gr. .45 would be a little different.

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That's all very impressive but of the fact is, the 230 grain bullet is by far the most commonly used round in the .45 ACP so that is what I based my comment on. We've put well over 2000 people through our various handgun classes and to date, not one of them regularly used 185 grain bullets.

Also, your velocities are about 100 fps off. I get about 975 out of a G27 w/180 grain bullets. I have a number of chrono tickets to prove it.

Firepower, that's about it. If 8 ain't good 'nuf for you, you ain't a very good shot. You need practice. Nothing against the .40, just that I don't swoon for one. Hell, 9x19 is plenty of power for self defense and if I need firepower, my 9 holds 16.

Desertscout said:

Also, your velocities are about 100 fps off. I get about 975 out of a G27 w/180 grain bullets. I have a number of chrono tickets to prove it.

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You position your chronos at 100 yards?

The .40 doesn't do anything for me.

Not for me and my ccw needs . However consider that i find my needs filled fine by a single stack 9mm most of the time . But then i cling to my opinions and needs like .... err ummm .. well nevermind .

The .45ACP just shrugged and said he had more experience......

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The .45 is also a Vietnam veteran.(When did the army go 9mm anyway?)

I think the U.S. Military would have used .40 caliber ammo if they thought it superior in anyway

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Remember, the military is limited to FMJ ammo, and is constrained by factors such as having to carry it around all day in Iraq.

Many police departments seem to have found it for some reason better, probably because it fits smaller hands better.

I would way rather have a .40 for duty, combat ect. For it's features, if I knew that I would be in a gunfight today I would not take a .45, I would take a .40.

.40 is better than the .45

[Many police departments seem to have found it for some reason better, probably because it fits smaller hands better./QUOTE]


That is not it at all! If that was the reason they surely would not issue Glocks (most popular)! The reason that the Sheriff at my dept. switched to the Glock 22 .40S&W is because the pentration is better, much more mag capacity, penetrates through car doors better, and .40 is bigger than the 9mm. IMO the .40 is the best round for duty ever made!

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Also, if you get a .40 S&W, usually you can change it out to 9mm and .357 Sig (with guns like the XD, Glock, etc.). As far as I know, you can't do that with a .45.

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Actually, you can. There are necked down .45s in both .40 (such as the .400 CorBon) and .357. And you can go up to .45 Super levels (about equal to a .41 Magnum) simply by switching out the recoil and firing pin return springs -- a $10 makeover.

But it strikes me that praising one cartridge by saying you can convert your gun to a different cartridge is dancing on the edge of insanity.

To answer the original question - NO! One hit with a .45 is better than a whole mag of .40 sprayed around the "hood".

For me knowing my wife will pick up and use my .40 if I go down is great to know.

If I carried my .45s (and she has shot them, also) her intimidation of the .45 recoil and the handling issues for her could mean the difference between getting out of the situation alive and not.

TCB122 in post #15 sees things my way.
The 45ACP operates at lower pressure than the 40 and I like that. The capacity difference really means nothing to me. I like the large, slow bullet fired at low pressure in the gun. If I need capacity, then I go to a 9mm BHP with 17-round magazines. This gives you firepower and a more controllable gun than a 40, and you get it in a VERY slim gun with a trim grip frame and traditional single action operating platform like the 1911. So, 1911 45ACP and 9mm BHP is how I roll for CCW, except when carrying a K frame magnum or D frame 38.
Nothing wrong with 40. I am just not a fan.
10mm, now that is a whole different story!

Can a .40 put a given weight of lead downrange with more velocity, greater energy, or better trajectory than a .45?

(1) Remington UMC .45 ACP 185 gr. metal case (L45API)
(2) Remington UMC .40 S&W 180 gr. metal case (L40SW3)
_______Velocity____M__50_100__Energy___M__50_100__Trajectory__50__100
.45ACP__________1015_955_907_________423_375_338_____________1.1"_4.8"
.40S&W___________985_936_893_________388_350_319_____________1.4"_5.0"

But a .40 bullet will drop through the bore of a .45 barrel.

There is so much stuff I could care less about in this thread it is incredible.

Let's just immediately descend into flame/caliber wars. None of us have anything better to do with our time.

Basic - each cartridge handles a range of
bullet weights, from light to medium to heavy
for the bore size and case capacity.

Double Tap Ammo offeringss
These are ALL Speer Gold Dot JHP
CUrrent offerings
$32.95/50 $29.95/50
.45 ACP ----- .40 S&W ------
185 gr 155 gr.
1225 fps 1,275 fps
616 ft lbs 606 ft. lbs
200 gr. 165 gr.
1125 fps 1,200 fps
562 Ft lbs 528 fl lbs
230 gr. 180 gr.
1,010 fps 1,100 fps
521 ft lbs 484 ft lbs


Let's just say as far as Ft Lbs kinetic
energy they're in the same neighborhood.

Looking at Federal's mid-range trajectory
charts where the load is zeroed for 25 yards
both the .40 S&W and .45 ACP only drop One
to ONe+ inches respectively at 50 yards. At 100
yards, the .40 S&W drops a little over 9 inches
and the .45 ACP is starting to fall off the table at
-14+ inches

I have the .400 CorBon barrel for my 1911 .45 ACP
which is certainly LOUD at the range.

Randall


.

Desertscout said:

The .40 shoots MUCH flatter at longer distances. For those that engage in extreme long distance shooting, the .45 requires a hell of a lot elevation. Even at 50 yards you're only talking about less than 3" with 25 yard zero. When you get out past 100 yards is when it shows the rainbow trajectory.

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Any civilian should never engage a target with a pistol, more than 25yds away. At that distance, there maybe will be a 1/2" drop when comparing a 230gr. 45ACP to a 155gr. 40S&W. From 50-75yds, any of the big 3 calibers(9mm, 40S&W, 45ACP), firing from an auto loader, will be innacurate and the effectiveness can go right out the door. At 100yds, the only pistols that are effective are magnum calibers.

So IMO, flatter trajectory is a moot point when talking about pistol calibers fired from a pistol. Trajectory is usually compared to high powered rifles which have an effective range of 10-20 time the distance of a pistol.

Any civilian should never engage a target with a pistol, more than 25yds away. At that distance, there maybe will be a 1/2" drop when comparing a 230gr. 45ACP to a 155gr. 40S&W. From 50-75yds, any of the big 3 calibers(9mm, 40S&W, 45ACP), firing from an auto loader, will be innacurate and the effectiveness can go right out the door. At 100yds, the only pistols that are effective are magnum calibers...

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in a defensive situation; you may be able to make the argument about engagements beyond 100 feet. When discussing the pros/cons of any two calibers the scenario is bound to come up. In this case the .40 does have a flatter trajectory compared to a .45


we are all civilians btw.

Geez.

Most everyone is listing things in broad sweeping statements, like 'The .40 round will do this and the .45 won't', or 'The .40 does this better than the .45' or the less common, but equally meaningless 'the .45 still does this better than .40.'


The fact of the matter is, just like every single cartridge on the planet, the performance of ammunition isn't just a function of the caliber, but the load of the round and the kind of bullet used.

I don't personally own a .40 (YET), but there is a nice selection of ammunition where I live. There seems to be more selection in .45, but that might just be because I actually own a .45 and buy ammo for it regularly.



So, to answer the original question... is there anything the .40 S&W can do that the .45 ACP can't?

/PROBABLY/. I don't say this as a comment on the general performance of the rounds. You can find rounds to do just about whatever you'd want them to in either caliber. I tend to think that it's just a little more likely to find it in .45. Of course, you could just handload and make this entire discussion more pointless than it is.

I think the U.S. Military would have used .40 caliber ammo if they thought it superior in anyway.

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That’s why they choose the 9mm.

The US Military chose the 9MMx19 for commonality with NATO. The
.40 S&W at the time - early 80s had barely been created for the FBI/LEO commujnity.

R-

45 V 40 flat shooting? small hole?
big hole? I carry a 45 colt commander
I have never been attacked by a 50yd target! whick one would be best
at 9 to 12 or 20 ft in your house.
230 gr 180 or 155?

You have to stop and ask yourself why discussions like these eternally come up. I believe its because the fact of the matter is that 9mm, .40 and .45 have very little difference in real world performance when using the same ammunition type and quality.

I like to call it the "tallest pigmy" syndrome.

Any civilian should never engage a target with a pistol, more than 25yds away.

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By whose rules and standards? Yours? And why do you say "civilian? Do you think that "civilians" are somehow less qualified than some government employee? Target? What kind of target? Paper? Rabid dogs? Democrats? What kind of target are we limited to 25 yards to shoot at?

At that distance, there maybe will be a 1/2" drop when comparing a 230gr. 45ACP to a 155gr. 40S&W.

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No, not really since pretty much decent handguns come from the factory zeroed at 25 yards. There won't be any measurable difference between the two calibers at that range.

From 50-75yds, any of the big 3 calibers(9mm, 40S&W, 45ACP), firing from an auto loader, will be innacurate and the effectiveness can go right out the door. At 100yds, the only pistols that are effective are magnum calibers.

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Oh really? I sure wish I had known that when I shot this group with a G23 at 100 yards a while back...


Or when I did this my G20...



I guess someone should have informed this deer that died a very quick and humane death at the hands of my G20 with a single shot at 112 yards...

So IMO, flatter trajectory is a moot point when talking about pistol calibers fired from a pistol.

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Oh, I see. So the 30 or so inches difference at 200 yards between the .40 and .45 is moot? Yeah. 200 yards.
As a matter of fact, here is a video of a first-shot hit at 200 yards with aG27. It is a little grainy since we took it with a cell phone but we have quite a few others that are much better that were taken with a regular camera that will be on our next DVD.


I have several such videos from several different handguns doing the same thing if you don't like this one. I have a couple that were done from a standing position also at the same distance.

[/QUOTE]Trajectory is usually compared to high powered rifles which have an effective range of 10-20 time the distance of a pistol.[/QUOTE]
Yes sir, especially to the uninformed.

We just conducted a Long-Range Handgun class this past weekend. I'm sure glad the students didn't know that they were not supposed to be able to 1st-shot hits at 200 yards. They would have been very disappointed. Since they didn't know, they were quite happy with sub-3" groups at 50 yards on paper and monotonous hits at 100 on 8"x14" swinging plates.

At 50 yards, there's about 3/4" difference between the .45 ACP and the .40 S&W, both sighted for 25 yards.

Actually, the Army stipulated 9mm in compliance with NATO standard with the original bid specs in the 1970's. This was well before the 40S&W (01/17/1990), and several years before the parent 10mm Auto (1983) were introduced.

The initial trials were completed in 1980, but due to some disputes, new trials were conducted and the Beretta M9 was selected in 1984.