5.56x45mm 75 gr Hornady TAP vs. 7.62x39mm shooting through glass

I voted wrong. I meant to vote in favor of 7.62x39.

7.62x39 would be a better choice.

Not a car windshield, but....

I shot at an aircraft windshield, 1.25 thick lexan, (or close to it) and anything with the phrase .22 in it did not go through. 22-250, .22lr, would only dimple it. My 9mm and 45ACP,went through with ease

Heavier (60gr and up) 5.56/.223 TAP rounds are rated to penetrate windshield glass. Now, how GOOD they are at that I am not qualified to answer, but they will go through.

Looking specifically at the question at hand, I would grab the 7.62x39.

Mike

Hornaday has a 62 gr. TAP round that is designed for barrier penetration. It has been tested on auto glass, and works great. I have a ton of it, and use it regularly...

The ONLY .223 round I would have even slight hope for against windshield glass would be the bonded bullets, particulary the LE-marketed federal bonded 62gr bullet.

Bonded bullets are the best choice for glass penetration in pretty much any caliber or cartridge, but make a world of different in .223. If I couldn't get those, the 7.62x39mm would inspire much more confidence. Of course, a .308 Win with bonded bullets would be a better choice than either one!

7.62 would be better by far. Ive got a car out back Ive used for testing, aswell as a couple other cars now scrapped..

7.62 went thru the windshield, hit the target square that was taped to the headrest, went thru the steel frame of it, thru the backseet, and out the trunk...

so Id pick it even just based on the fact it could have the potential to pennetrate a wind shield, aswell as more than one body afterwards..

Ill try and get some pics up tomorrow..

7.62 also goes in and out, two cardoors quite easily.

9mm does better than I thought it would, just diddnt go thru the trunk, but Im pretty shure its in there somewhere.

ip.

Is this our version of the infamous " Hanging Chad"???Sorry; I could NOT resist( terrible character flaw of mine)...
BTW; wasn't the TAP loading intended for Nuke plant guards???Guys who needed a reasonable chance of defeating plant fire doors and delivering terminal results in the meaty bundles on the other side???I always wondered how they accomplished that.Nice it it works;but methinks i'd take the 7.62X39 for no other reason but more recent experience with it and NONE with the 75-77 grain 5.56 loadings.

Are u guys kidding? 7.62x39 is king in the penetration department when compared to the 5.56. I have shot car glass with both and the 5.56 will make a hole...... but the x39 will make a hole and in direct line make a hole through anything else in its way. My SAR-1 made swiss out of a Ford Tempo. I actually shot at the headlight and found a hole in the rear bumper. Went through battery firewall, dash driver seat, back seat spare tire and out of the car through bumper. There is no comparing the too. Apples and Oranges

Hmmm, maybe I am mistaken.. I thought the TAP was supposed to hold up through hard barriers, and then fragment through soft. Oops.

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What? How would any ammo hold together through HARD barriers yet fragment through soft?? That doesn't make a lick of sense.

Marcus L:
This is off the topic, but with Russia's conversion to other calibers, will that have a positive influence on keeping Wolf/Bear/Tiger x39 ammo prices from going up, if all else were equal?
If this question violates the "Internet Thread Procedure SOPs" (I missed that class from '73-'77), or is found in "Abnormal Procedures", then send me a pm.

What? How would any ammo hold together through HARD barriers yet fragment through soft?? That doesn't make a lick of sense.

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Look at the 55 grain FMJ numbers
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=26244&d=1120919526
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=26246&d=1120919546

Are u guys kidding? 7.62x39 is king in the penetration department when compared to the 5.56. I have shot car glass with both and the 5.56 will make a hole...... but the x39 will make a hole and in direct line make a hole through anything else in its way. My SAR-1 made swiss out of a Ford Tempo. I actually shot at the headlight and found a hole in the rear bumper. Went through battery firewall, dash driver seat, back seat spare tire and out of the car through bumper. There is no comparing the too. Apples and Oranges

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Much depends on what projectile is loaded in each cartridge. Without telling us what type of ammo you were shooting in each caliber your comments don't tell us much. As you can see from the two links above, and the rest posted here by Bartholomew Roberts, .223/5.56 performance on various barriers differs widely based upon bullet construction.

If anyone knows of similar test data for the 75 grain TAP please post the data or a link to it.

You will not, under any circumstances, stop any moving vehicle with any bullet. Rifle or otherwise. Physics won't allow it. Killing or incapacitating the driver only creates an uncontrolled one ton or so projectile.
Any rifle bullet will go right through any windshield, but it will not stop the vehicle.

Look at the 55 grain FMJ numbers
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachmen...4&d=1120919526
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachmen...6&d=1120919546

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How does that in any way support a bullet making it through a hard target to fragment in a soft? That is merely a ballastics gellatin test. That in no way supports the op's statement.

Thanks guys. I love shooting the 556 for fun, but any reservations I might have had are resolved in favor of the 7.62... NATO flavor as oppose to E. Bloc.

Great thread.

I woudn't want TAP ammo for anything other than Gophers. Frangible ammo is made to wound, and I don't play that game.

I voted 7.62x39

5.56 tap ammo for gophers, 7.62x39 for anything bigger.

a round that is meant for hitting soft, fleshy targets, and a round that eats through concrete walls...

no brainer here.

IF I had to choose between 5.56x45mm(w/TAP ammo) and 7.62x39mm(w/commie issue ammo) for penetration through glass I'll take the 7.62.

How does that in any way support a bullet making it through a hard target to fragment in a soft? That is merely a ballastics gellatin test. That in no way supports the op's statement.

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The first link shows penetration in bare gel. The second link shows penetration in gel after passing through a steel plate. The 55 gr. FMJ actually holds together better after penetrating a steel plate.

If you'd look at the other link you'll see that B. Roberts posted all five of the barrier tests Federal published, including auto glass. Unfortunately it's a test conducted by Federal, so there is no data in that test about 75 grain Hornady TAP.

I woudn't want TAP ammo for anything other than Gophers. Frangible ammo is made to wound, and I don't play that game.

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I think there's some confusion about the various TAP ammo. Hornady loads .223 TAP FPD (commercial ammo) in 55 and 60 grain with a VMAX ballistic tip bullet; and 75 grain with an OTM FMJ bullet. On the LE side they load a 40 grain VMAX and a 62 grain barrier penetration round in .223, in addition to the same 3 loads sold under the TAP FPD line. They also offer two more steel cased training loads on the LE side; a 55 grain FMJ, and a 75 grain OTM FMJ. Finally, still on the LE side, Hornady offers one actual 5.56x45 load; a 75 grain OTM FMJ "T2" with a slightly different construction than their other 75 grain OTM bullets.

The last load is the one the OP asked about. There's a link in the reading library to a now 27 page thread on ar15.com about the 75 grain TAP loadings. In that thread there's plenty of good external ballistic data about the various TAP loads and their competitors, but no terminal ballistic data. Again, if anyone has a link to terminal ballistic data on the TAP 5.56x45 75 grain load that would be great. Then we could quit guessing about what it might do against barriers.

I will take 7.62 X 39 any day of the week........

You will not, under any circumstances, stop any moving vehicle with any bullet. Rifle or otherwise. Physics won't allow it.

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I'll raise you one Anzio Ironworks 20mm Vulcan.




Heck, even the .50BMG is used as an anti-material /hard-target inderdiction round. But I have no first-hand experience with either.

I'm just going to say that if I ever have to shoot through a windshield, I am probably not going to stop and consider the options.

s this our version of the infamous " Hanging Chad"???Sorry; I could NOT resist( terrible character flaw of mine)...
BTW; wasn't the TAP loading intended for Nuke plant guards???Guys who needed a reasonable chance of defeating plant fire doors and delivering terminal results in the meaty bundles on the other side???I always wondered how they accomplished that.Nice it it works;but methinks i'd take the 7.62X39 for no other reason but more recent experience with it and NONE with the 75-77 grain 5.56 loadings.

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You are right, it is used, and was developed for nuke plants...I am kind of surprised that you knew that...a little concerned even lol...it really does perform well, and is probably about as good as it gets for barriers, and functions great in 1/9 barrels that are commonly used by most facilities...

You are right, it is used, and was developed for nuke plants...I am kind of surprised that you knew that...a little concerned even lol...it really does perform well, and is probably about as good as it gets for barriers, and functions great in 1/9 barrels that are commonly used by most facilities...

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Well, the info is posted on Hornady's website. However, they say it's a 62 grain round that was developed for barrier penetration for nuke plant security. http://www.hornadyle.com/products/detail.php?id=72&sID=86