Shawnee
member
My son shot this Comal County (Texas) buck yesterday from a tower blind and downhill at what his rangefinder said was 320yds. Note the exit wound left by the 7mm/08 CoreLokt.
320yd neck shot
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Ben Shepherd
Member
Thanks for the post. My dad was just given a very pretty browning A-bolt in that caliber, and he's been looking for real world hunting results. This is a perfect example.
Shawnee
member
My son's rifle is a 700CDL that I bought him for Christmas 2006. He put a Nikon Buckmaster 4x14 on it and has shot scads of hogs and deer with it.
He says the "swat" that thing has is just phenomenal and every pic he sends along shows similar devastation. He is a die-hard head/neck shooter and some of the hog pics he has sent have been downright gruesome.
I don't recall that he has used anything but plain-Jane Remington CoreLokts in it.
He says the "swat" that thing has is just phenomenal and every pic he sends along shows similar devastation. He is a die-hard head/neck shooter and some of the hog pics he has sent have been downright gruesome.
I don't recall that he has used anything but plain-Jane Remington CoreLokts in it.
Marlin95
Member
nice deer shawnee.Ill post the one i shot today.nice 10pt or 12 if you consider small points coming out of the brow tines
MountainWalk
Member
Was the chest shot unavailable?
Shawnee
member
"Was the chest shot unavailable?"
Not sure, but he would have passed it up anyway because he targets the head or neck if at all feasible.
Not sure, but he would have passed it up anyway because he targets the head or neck if at all feasible.
Marlin95
Member
MountainWalk
Member
How many deer honestly has he lost?
caribou
Member
Honestly, head and neck shots are meat makers. Ive never lost one yet.
Most Inupiaq hunters I know are head and neck shooters, with great results and zip for losses....but we are in open Tundra, so nothing gets away. Most die within 50 yards if they are not dead there, busted neck/brain all over.
Neck shots are devastating, and if you are a proper hunter, tracking swaths of blood posses no problems.
Keep it up.
Most Inupiaq hunters I know are head and neck shooters, with great results and zip for losses....but we are in open Tundra, so nothing gets away. Most die within 50 yards if they are not dead there, busted neck/brain all over.
Neck shots are devastating, and if you are a proper hunter, tracking swaths of blood posses no problems.
Keep it up.
Ridgerunner665
Member
Good shot...why anybody questions that shot placement is beyond me.
I bet he was not hard to find...since I'm sure he fell right there where he was standing.
I bet he was not hard to find...since I'm sure he fell right there where he was standing.
Shawnee
member
"How many deer honestly has he lost?"
I am not aware of any that he has lost with head/neck shots. I am aware of perhaps 70 that he has harvested with head/neck shots, plus about 50 hogs per year. "Chest shots" rarely put an animal down DRT and so he shuns them. I do too, for the same reason. I also happen to believe that "chest shooting" too often leads to the "body shooting" that is both unethical and grossly inhumane.
Local opinion may vary.
Ridgerunner - you're correct. He said the deer "disaappeared" at the shot but he went right to the carcass and thought the buck couldn't have moved three steps from where it had been standing.
Marlin95 ... High-5 to Ya, Dude that's a fine buck !!
I am not aware of any that he has lost with head/neck shots. I am aware of perhaps 70 that he has harvested with head/neck shots, plus about 50 hogs per year. "Chest shots" rarely put an animal down DRT and so he shuns them. I do too, for the same reason. I also happen to believe that "chest shooting" too often leads to the "body shooting" that is both unethical and grossly inhumane.
Local opinion may vary.
Ridgerunner - you're correct. He said the deer "disaappeared" at the shot but he went right to the carcass and thought the buck couldn't have moved three steps from where it had been standing.
Marlin95 ... High-5 to Ya, Dude that's a fine buck !!
MountainWalk
Member
I am asking in the interest of objectivity. Many will state the best results, but leave the rest out. Objectivity is being able to say, for exp, You love your rifle b/c of so and so, but also being able to list it's shortcomings. If a man takes all neck shots, he's bound to miss, and or cripple sometime or another. At that range, a chest shot just offers greater percentage of killing, plain and simple.
MountainWalk
Member
Shunning chest shots b/c its close to the guts makes no sense when you think about how small the hit area of the neck is.
Ridgerunner665
Member
That applies just as much to chest shots...a miss is a miss and 320 yards with a 7mm/08 (or any other rifle that the user is familiar with) is not a problem for an experienced shooter.
I think I understand where you're coming from...you say you are a guide and I'm sure you've had more than 1 hunter who couldn't hit a barn at 320 yards, much less a deers neck...but we are not all that inexperienced. I killed a deer at 540 yards last week...with a 308.
Ridgerunner665
Member
In a nutshell..."A man has got to know his limitations"...
Shawnee
member
Mountainwalk...
A chest shot would have (most likely) meant that the deer would travel at least some distance away from the "mark" he had picked out to use to find the deer (in this case an old gate).
He didn't want to mess up the head on this particular deer so he took the neck shot with the knowledge that he would find the deer near his "mark" (the gate).... and he was right.
People sometimes speculate that shooting for head/neck shots will, sooner or later, result in a wounded deer escaping, and they may be right. However, they seem to not recall that "chest shots" quite often result in a lost deer due to tracking problems and the deer having moved away from the hunter's "reference mark".
He and I have gravitated to head/neck shots simply because the % of DRT kills is so much higher than with chest shots.
YMMV
A chest shot would have (most likely) meant that the deer would travel at least some distance away from the "mark" he had picked out to use to find the deer (in this case an old gate).
He didn't want to mess up the head on this particular deer so he took the neck shot with the knowledge that he would find the deer near his "mark" (the gate).... and he was right.
People sometimes speculate that shooting for head/neck shots will, sooner or later, result in a wounded deer escaping, and they may be right. However, they seem to not recall that "chest shots" quite often result in a lost deer due to tracking problems and the deer having moved away from the hunter's "reference mark".
He and I have gravitated to head/neck shots simply because the % of DRT kills is so much higher than with chest shots.
YMMV
TOF = 0.4 seconds @ 320yards.
Factor in typical human response times and there's about 0.6 seconds between the time that you consciously decide to shoot and the time that the bullet arrives.
If the animal takes a step or moves its head just about the time you decide to break the shot, how far can it move in 0.6 seconds?
What will that amount of movement do to a head or neck shot?
What will that amount of movement do to a heart/lung shot?
Factor in typical human response times and there's about 0.6 seconds between the time that you consciously decide to shoot and the time that the bullet arrives.
If the animal takes a step or moves its head just about the time you decide to break the shot, how far can it move in 0.6 seconds?
What will that amount of movement do to a head or neck shot?
What will that amount of movement do to a heart/lung shot?
Ridgerunner665
Member
He can move enough to seriously screw up either shot...I'd rather have a complete miss than a gut shot...that was the point Shawnee was making earlier.
telecaster1981
Member
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Speaking from experience, the heart/lung shooter will be far enough off his mark to throw any chance of making a DRT kill, and possibly lose the animal altogether. The neck/head shooter will just miss...not so bad.
I've found a trick that works for me. The best head/neck shot is one in which the deer is looking your way...so, I always make some strange noise and get their attention for long enough to take the shot. I shot 6 deer through the head this season from 150-250yds using that method. Incidentally, I missed one shot at a deer 300 yards away because my strange noise failed to capture its attention for more than .6 seconds...but hey, it's better than a wounded deer!
MountainWalk
Member
Ive taken a few neck shots.
I myself have no problem trailing a deer for 20-100 yards. It's part of hunting. As for the DRT thing, I guess if it makes you happy. DROT(dead right over there) works for me also.
Nah Ridgerunner, it's not much my clients that make me shy from it. It comes from my own sad expeirience.
Growing up, I most always neck shot and head shot things. My reasoning was the same idea,, "I won't have to track it." Well, I merrily went about my way taking these shots if I was able. I guess it made me swell up with pride to say I neck shot stuff.
One day, I spies a nice little buck, and raise my 760 270 pump to shoot this deer where the neck joins the head, a range, that now looking back I figure to be 30 something yards. I shoot, and I'm rewarded with the sorriest, most horrible image Ive ever seen in my hunting "career
". I blew his effing jaw off, and he makes the most horrid sound ever. I trailed him after an hour of waiting and never caught back up to him. Ive never taken an intentional head shot again. Never will. I take that back, I did shoot one bear in the head when he came for me after following him into the ferns and salal. We can all miss. Thats a risk we all take. But 12 inches of vital seems so much more sure than 3 inches of bone. If we never wanted to miss, we take cameras and not guns.
I myself have no problem trailing a deer for 20-100 yards. It's part of hunting. As for the DRT thing, I guess if it makes you happy. DROT(dead right over there) works for me also.
Nah Ridgerunner, it's not much my clients that make me shy from it. It comes from my own sad expeirience.
Growing up, I most always neck shot and head shot things. My reasoning was the same idea,, "I won't have to track it." Well, I merrily went about my way taking these shots if I was able. I guess it made me swell up with pride to say I neck shot stuff.
One day, I spies a nice little buck, and raise my 760 270 pump to shoot this deer where the neck joins the head, a range, that now looking back I figure to be 30 something yards. I shoot, and I'm rewarded with the sorriest, most horrible image Ive ever seen in my hunting "career
". I blew his effing jaw off, and he makes the most horrid sound ever. I trailed him after an hour of waiting and never caught back up to him. Ive never taken an intentional head shot again. Never will. I take that back, I did shoot one bear in the head when he came for me after following him into the ferns and salal. We can all miss. Thats a risk we all take. But 12 inches of vital seems so much more sure than 3 inches of bone. If we never wanted to miss, we take cameras and not guns.
Ridgerunner665
Member
That's understandable...
I don't take neck shots myself unless thats the only shot I have, I prefer the high shoulder shot when I MUST put them down "right there"...bust shoulders, spine, and lungs...deer is immobile and dead. That said, the neck shot ruins less meat.
The woods are full of hunters out this way...a deer that runs 100 yards will likely end up in a freezer that belongs to somebody else...I myself don't have to deal with that but many people do.
I don't take neck shots myself unless thats the only shot I have, I prefer the high shoulder shot when I MUST put them down "right there"...bust shoulders, spine, and lungs...deer is immobile and dead. That said, the neck shot ruins less meat.
The woods are full of hunters out this way...a deer that runs 100 yards will likely end up in a freezer that belongs to somebody else...I myself don't have to deal with that but many people do.
It makes perfect since if you could possibly know how many deer die inhumanely, because they did make it more than a couple hundred yards. I have tried to track 3 this year, because the kid took bad chest shots. All three died i am sure, because of the blood loss. When they stop bleeding in the dense woods, then keep on traveling.
I personally do not take head neck shots. Only because I am not steady or good enough. I agree with previous stated, high shoulders. I do loose a little meat but do not loose the deer.
Nice Deer guys. You did your part, the proof is in the picture.
Lonny
Ty7940
Member
Ahh...I personally prefer head or neck shots because It is an instant dropper and ruins less meat. Not to mention, I just can't take a chest shot because it just seems less humane. Having it run a few hundred yards then die, or drop it in its place, honestly, which seems more humane? But then again, one time I had to put down a dog for my grandmother (BIG rotweiller) and I hit it from about 10 yards with a .30-06 in the head and it split it's skull open and took a big ol' chunk of brain out and the dog was still runnin' and makin the most HORRIBLE noise I had ever heard for about 25 seconds before it dropped (truely scary).
Shawnee
member
Success at head/neck shooting is more than just aiming at the head/neck. The shot has to be set up - meaning the situation has to be assessed and, if possible, manipulated so the shot is fairly easy. The "white patch" shot others have mentioned is a fairly simple placement, especially within 100yds. And always the "default shot" for both my son and I is the "high through the shoulders" shot that Lon and Ridgerunner mention.
With this buck, my son was sitting in a sturdy blind that is set up for shooting, including window sills wide enough to hold sandbags. He had a clear, albeit long-ish shot. He had a good rifle with a good 14x scope and that rifle is "zero'ed" at about 275 yds. (just 50 yds short of his target). He was certain of the range (thanks to the rangefinder) and has considerable shooting experience. So a lot of the usual shooting variables were eliminated (or put in his favor) before the shot was taken.
A hunter needs to be aware of when and how successful head/neck shots can be made and when to go to the "default shot", and when to wait for a better opportunity. That includes reading deer "body language" and being acutely aware of angles and elevations. With this buck, my son took the best neck shot - centered vertically just ahead of where the neck joins the body. The exit wound is lower because of the elevation and because (as he told me) he hit slightly lower than he planned. But the performance of the bullet he was using made the "slightly low" hit perfectly effective.
Head and upper neck shots are wonderfully effective but they should be taken only under certain conditions (including distance and angles), and always from a supported position. As others have said too, knowledge of one's rifle's performance and limits is a must, but that really applies to all game shooting. Personally, I would not take a broadside head shot specifically because of the possibility of just shooting the lower jaw off. Had I been in your shoes (Mountainwalk) I'm sure I would have and felt terrible about the matter forever. But, like Lon, Ty and Ridgerunner, I've known of too many "we couldn't find it" deer that resulted from chest/body shots and that is just as bad (imho).
I really don't think there is much disagreement here. Clean kills result from knowledgable and careful shooting, and sometimes a good ability to trail a wounded animal.
With this buck, my son was sitting in a sturdy blind that is set up for shooting, including window sills wide enough to hold sandbags. He had a clear, albeit long-ish shot. He had a good rifle with a good 14x scope and that rifle is "zero'ed" at about 275 yds. (just 50 yds short of his target). He was certain of the range (thanks to the rangefinder) and has considerable shooting experience. So a lot of the usual shooting variables were eliminated (or put in his favor) before the shot was taken.
A hunter needs to be aware of when and how successful head/neck shots can be made and when to go to the "default shot", and when to wait for a better opportunity. That includes reading deer "body language" and being acutely aware of angles and elevations. With this buck, my son took the best neck shot - centered vertically just ahead of where the neck joins the body. The exit wound is lower because of the elevation and because (as he told me) he hit slightly lower than he planned. But the performance of the bullet he was using made the "slightly low" hit perfectly effective.
Head and upper neck shots are wonderfully effective but they should be taken only under certain conditions (including distance and angles), and always from a supported position. As others have said too, knowledge of one's rifle's performance and limits is a must, but that really applies to all game shooting. Personally, I would not take a broadside head shot specifically because of the possibility of just shooting the lower jaw off. Had I been in your shoes (Mountainwalk) I'm sure I would have
and felt terrible about the matter forever. But, like Lon, Ty and Ridgerunner, I've known of too many "we couldn't find it" deer that resulted from chest/body shots and that is just as bad (imho).I really don't think there is much disagreement here. Clean kills result from knowledgable and careful shooting, and sometimes a good ability to trail a wounded animal.
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