Ft. Lauderdale Police Beat Up Citizen in Elevator
- Thread starter rogerjames
- Start date
- Status
The problem with forming an opinion about the video is this...
We only see what happened in the elevator, and it started with an individual standing in the door trying to stop the police from entering, then what appears as the guy in the back corner yelling something at the police in the elevator door, after this the fight started.
Being in LE myself, knowing that video is used for legal purposes to protect the LEO in court from false claims, or exagerrations, I also know that too many times the video is started for the public to see only, where the police seem to be aggressive, not before, the reason is to gain a "police abuse" public opinion from its viewers.
Regardless of what the reality of the case was, none of us were there to see or hear what happened until the press released video shows us. If we saw a copy of the video that started before the encounter, with sound to make a better picture, we might all be saying "why isnt that guy in prison?".
Maybe we should ask the questions needed to form an opinion, why were the police respoding to the elevator? Why was the guy hiding in the corner? Why were the other people (appears to be his friends) in the elevator trying to stop the police? Why were his friends laughing and smiling while doing what appears to be listening to him before the police rushed in to detain him?
Also consider this, until the cuffs are on, until the suspect is under control, and transported from the scene, the police have a duty to use whatever force is necessary to protect the public as a whole while not going overboard with it. I didnt see them beating him excessively, I saw them detaining a resisting suspect, its even obvious from the bad video angle.
Self defense on his part? Id say he had no case for defending against them, just from what I can see in the video, and having experience with these things.
As far as a person defending themselves from a group of people claiming to be police in a similar situation if they werent goes, that would have to be decided by the individual facing that situation. But when they have badges, police balistic vests, and every other physical indication of being police, Id say you would be killing yourself trying to stand your ground, any way you try to defend yourself. You would never live to see court if you fired on them.
We only see what happened in the elevator, and it started with an individual standing in the door trying to stop the police from entering, then what appears as the guy in the back corner yelling something at the police in the elevator door, after this the fight started.
Being in LE myself, knowing that video is used for legal purposes to protect the LEO in court from false claims, or exagerrations, I also know that too many times the video is started for the public to see only, where the police seem to be aggressive, not before, the reason is to gain a "police abuse" public opinion from its viewers.
Regardless of what the reality of the case was, none of us were there to see or hear what happened until the press released video shows us. If we saw a copy of the video that started before the encounter, with sound to make a better picture, we might all be saying "why isnt that guy in prison?".
Maybe we should ask the questions needed to form an opinion, why were the police respoding to the elevator? Why was the guy hiding in the corner? Why were the other people (appears to be his friends) in the elevator trying to stop the police? Why were his friends laughing and smiling while doing what appears to be listening to him before the police rushed in to detain him?
Also consider this, until the cuffs are on, until the suspect is under control, and transported from the scene, the police have a duty to use whatever force is necessary to protect the public as a whole while not going overboard with it. I didnt see them beating him excessively, I saw them detaining a resisting suspect, its even obvious from the bad video angle.
Self defense on his part? Id say he had no case for defending against them, just from what I can see in the video, and having experience with these things.
As far as a person defending themselves from a group of people claiming to be police in a similar situation if they werent goes, that would have to be decided by the individual facing that situation. But when they have badges, police balistic vests, and every other physical indication of being police, Id say you would be killing yourself trying to stand your ground, any way you try to defend yourself. You would never live to see court if you fired on them.
chuckusaret
member
I live in the great state of Florida and I am well aware of the need for better oversight of our police forces. Like in any large organization there are good officers and bad officers. It appears that this attack was by a wolf pack of bad officers. Each and everyone of them should be terminated.
What is really sad is that there was no uprising by the locals demanding the heads of the cops. I'll bet if Ortiz had been a black there would have been riots in the streets.
What is really sad is that there was no uprising by the locals demanding the heads of the cops. I'll bet if Ortiz had been a black there would have been riots in the streets.
desert gator
Member
Amen to that Shvar
Byron Quick
Moderator In Memoriam
Then the legal definition of perjury needs to be changed to include such actions.
No, he doesn't. The guy in the white is standing in the elevator with his hands in his pocket when the officer gets into his face and then shoves him in the chest with both hands...into the wall of the elevator after which the rest of the police come in.
As far as you can tell from the video, the young man didn't say anything. He certainly was not 'acting up.' Now if you step up nose to nose with me...am I getting into your face? Or are you getting into my face?
earlthegoat2
Member
Probably because everyone who was there either thinks nothing wrong happened or were too drunk to remember.
What a horse's rear statement to make! Criminals stopped fearing society, not cops. Why? Because most of society is helpless. Because when people DO get involved, they either get mauled/killed by more violent, more heavily armed criminals, or they get sued in court by those criminals, or they get charged with crimes and impoverished defending themselves from bull***** charges. The result is the societal view that ONLY the police have power. The result is that the police sometimes ABUSE that power, and criminals- not the people, are more free to act.
John
earlthegoat2
Member
Welcome to the generation of cover your you know what. The day that a burglar can win a civil suit because he got injured in the house he was burglarizing are upon us.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Wikipedia affirms the basic definition of perjury as lying under oath in court. However, it includes this language:
"The rules for perjury also apply when a person has made a statement under penalty of perjury, even if the person has not been sworn or affirmed as a witness before an appropriate official."
This holds for one's 1040 for IRS and for the 4473 when buying a firearm from a dealer. If not already part of the regulations for any law enforcement agency, it could easily be made such.
"The rules for perjury also apply when a person has made a statement under penalty of perjury, even if the person has not been sworn or affirmed as a witness before an appropriate official."
This holds for one's 1040 for IRS and for the 4473 when buying a firearm from a dealer. If not already part of the regulations for any law enforcement agency, it could easily be made such.
divemedic
Member
I work for a fire department here in Florida. When I file a report, my reports are admissible in court as sworn testimony. It is my understanding that lying on a report is the same as lying under oath. It is also illegal to lie to a LEO who is conducting an investigation. I cannot see why it would be less so for a LEO filing a report in Florida.
desert gator
Member
Why are people always so eager to put down and bad mouth law enforcement?
Sergeant Sabre
Member
It's probably not necessary. Most states already have laws against making a false police report.
metallic
Member
Because we hold them to a higher standard. A higher standard leads to a higher level of criticism.
desert gator
Member
we need to remember though that police are good with good intentions as a whole, to serve and protect. Its specific individuals who abuse public trust that are the problem.
I'm a lot more concerned about the charges filed than the punches thrown. A felony conviction can and will ruin your life, and based on the officers testimony, without the video, they were going after, and probably going to get, a felony battery charge on the guy when he didn't raise a hand to anyone. Scary stuff indeed.
desert gator
Member
I would hardly classify that as a beating.
One thing that is suspicious is that the police said he came up to them in a fighting stance nose to nose with clench fists. If you see the video he had his hands in the pocket and was clearly far enough away where he wasn't nose to nose with the officer. Also, the police didn't know the whole incident was on video and filed a false report before they were aware the incident was video taped by a hidden camera. I suppose in this case, the suspect, regardles of whether he was good or bad, has the legal right to file charges against the police.
I don't know if the guy is a loser, a bad guy or what he did wrong. However, when police are going to break the law and make false reports, I think they are going to have to answer up to it. That prevents us from living in a police state with corrupt police.
OF course, I still respect the police and know a Miami police officer must go through a lot of hell in his career. Maybe these cops were ultra-paranoid. THey should have not have lied on the police report, this incriminates them. I bet the suspect will be going for a big lawsuit now against the police department with this hard evidence.
I don't know if the guy is a loser, a bad guy or what he did wrong. However, when police are going to break the law and make false reports, I think they are going to have to answer up to it. That prevents us from living in a police state with corrupt police.
OF course, I still respect the police and know a Miami police officer must go through a lot of hell in his career. Maybe these cops were ultra-paranoid. THey should have not have lied on the police report, this incriminates them. I bet the suspect will be going for a big lawsuit now against the police department with this hard evidence.
Deanimator
Member
So then you wouldn't mind if your mother were similarly treated, followed by false charges being filed against her?
Deanimator
Member
And THOSE individuals have to be mercilessly crushed under the boot heel of the criminal justice system, just like any carjacker or child molestor. They don't just damage individuals. They destroy the very trust that's the basis of the criminal justice system.
desert gator
Member
Just because I dont consider that a beating does not mean I condone it. I am not saying that what the police did was right, Im just saying it was a physical altercation, but he surely was not beat down
- Status