AR15......White Oak upper w/ Essential lower -or- Rock River NMA4

What the heck is a "pre-ban" upper?

In any event, I like option #2 - White Oak is supposed to be real good stuff. I doubt you'd be able to detect a lick of actual practical difference however.

John Holliger at White Oak reams his own chambers - a little less 'production line' in my mind. I had great service and quick turnaround from them (mind you, turnaround since the election is longer for everybody).

One item that appears non-equivalent is the trigger group - the Rock River will come with their excellent 2 stage match while the Essential lower doesn't reference anything so I assume a stock, GI type (ie. unpleasant) trigger group.

If it were me, I'd get the Essential lower and order the WOA upper and have John throw in their custom prepped Rock River trigger for $120. I have both a stock RRA 2 stage and a WOA prepared RRA and the difference is noticeable.

[ETA: Get the pinned rear sights from WOA also ($55)]
/Bryan

WOA > RRA.

The lower doesn't matter, as long as it is spec (either one is). The trigger group is about a $100 diffeence if you want to upgrade to the RRA NM trigger. However, if you eventually plan on upgrading further (like Jewel, Giselle or a JP), you'd be money ahead to get the cheaper lower assembly.

It all depends on whether or not you intend to use it in a way that would allow the extra accuracy potential of the WOA to be felt. If this is a short-range, standing-up fighting carbine, it doesn't matter. If this is more of an all-around gun or a semi-precision instrument, WOA all the way.

Mike

Also, check the barrel profiles. Which one is closer to your needs, or are they the same?

Mike

The OP is apparently looking at Service Rifle legal guns so the barrels will be the same profile.

If you plan to shoot across the course and you go with the WOA, ask John if the removable carry handle will elevate for 600 yds ... last I heard, only the RRA detachable could - it may be that the RRA is what he supplies ... dunno, I went with an A2.
/B

I am not sure what I want to do with the rifle yet.

I do know that I would like a rifle that will remind me of my military service. This is why I would like to stick with a 20" barrel and full stock.

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Havhon,

Based on what you said in your previous post as quoted above, and it seems like folks are pushing you down the National Match road, I just want to mention that there are real differences between the issue rifle you're remembering and the NM models being discussed in these threads.

First off the NM rifles are much heavier because of the barrel itself and the hidden free float tube under the handguard. They all will have a greater level of accuracy certainly, but you pay a price for it.

These rifles are very front heavy and are almost always counterweighted by putting weight in the buttstock. Typically the overall weight will be at least 10 pounds and can be weighted to upwards of 15 pounds. So a NM rifle isn't exactly the handiest rifle you can get.

Second, the sights are set up for NM shooting and the rear aperture is real likely to be hooded and tiny compared to a usual AR rear sight. If you have any thoughts of using the rifle for a tactical or three gun competition, those sights will not serve you well.

However, if the weight is not a problem, get the flattop version so you can easily swap out NM sight for a different sight, such as a scope, a standard back up iron sight or a holo style sight. This will give you the most flexibility in the long run.

I don't know that he's being pushed as the initial post is about an NM RRA - quite different than the 40 carbines, mid-lengths and non-floated offerings they have.
/B

A pre-ban would have a bayonet lug and flash suppressor.

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You mean, just like a "post-ban", aka "current production", aka "no-ban"???? And so they're still selling stuff NOW, NEW, that they made BEFORE 1994 - is that it? No, they're not. Oh brother.....Hint: there is no such thing as a "pre-ban", when you're talking about a NEW item (unless and until there is in fact a new ban passed). Also, when you're talking about a used item, made pre-1994, there IS such a thing technically as "pre-ban", but it has no practical significance whatsoever, since the pre-ban stuff is no more or less legal/transferable than anything else made right now, or since 2004. I'm sorry but it's a pet peeve of mine, since sellers use it semi-fraudulently to artificially raise the value of their item for sale.

I've been shooting a WOA service rifle upper for several years now. My upper is on it's third barrel and still running strong. WOA is the clear choice.

Now the bad news... the last I heard from a fellow highpower shooter, WOA uppers have an 18 week wait.

I have 2 uppers from WOP. There is no doubt Johns uppers shoot, WOA or WOP. The wait is worth it.

Both uppers have the pinned rear sight. I would also go with a 7 twist which would allow you to shoot about any bullet out there.

The first upper I bought from WOP has a 6 1/2 Nor Pac. This barrel although worn will still shoot 53 gr. SMK's at a 100 very nicely. Both uppers have won money and matches and continue to do so.

If you plan to shoot across the course and you go with the WOA, ask John if the removable carry handle will elevate for 600 yds ... last I heard, only the RRA detachable could - it may be that the RRA is what he supplies

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This is a good point (I think!). I've been told from more than one source the same thing: that only the RR removeable upper can be easily zeroed @ 600 yards. But I don't know why (or even if) this is the case.

FYI Some manufacturers, like DPMS, still use the term "pre-ban" to distinguish barrels with bayonet lugs and flash hiders.

If your question is "how do they compare", I would answer with an analogy. If you are planning on going out to dinner and have two options that both will cost you about the same where do you go? To Friday's or to a five star restaurant? The food in both places is certainly good, but the five star restaurant has highly skilled chefs that have an intricate knowledge of the meals they are preparing; Fridays has employees with varying amounts of experience preparing food for mass consumption.

In my mind, if the cost is the same, and White Oak will build the rifle you want, be it NM with a free floated tube or standard contour with standard hand guards, there is no advantage in buying the rifle that is "assembled".

You may want to look into who actually has the rifle you want to buy. From what I've seen, your option is pretty much limited to Gunbroker. Right now I don't think you will get one for msrp. So if White Oak only has a 10 week wait, it may be the way to go. It's up to you, how much extra are you willing to pay so you don't have to wait.

Rock River? Me likey!!

New Wylde reciever handles 223 sporting and 5.56 very well...very accomadating for folks who price shop ammo, and a nice resolution to knucklepucking projectiles. Both rounds group well. Me and a friend put his new rocker river through the ringer. We loaded 223 and 5.56 alternating in a mag to verify functionality. Wow, was i suprised. Flawless operation. I am constantly blown away by Rock Rivers equipment. Kudos to the folks at Rock River.


"-40 to 110. I dump rounds in any weather "