Another example of why women should carry a handgun.

My sig line says Mindset - Skillset - Toolset for a reason. A firearm, or any other sort of weapon, is useless or worse if the person who owns it is not fully aware of their surroundings and prepared to employ whatever level of force is necessary to defeat a violent attack. Guns are not magic talismans, their mere presence will not ward off evildoers.

ALL of us- not just women- need to be aware, alert and prepared to defend ourselves and our loved ones. The government and the police are not responsible for that, though often enough various governments erect needless barricades that prevent the law abiding from defending themselves using the most effective available means of defense. The owners of commercial or private property are often enough not responsible for protecting those who come on their premises either, though some of them are quick to erect their own barricades to effective self defense.

There's much more to it than just carrying a gun...

JMHO, YMMV, FWIW,

lpl

Lee Lapin said:

My sig line says Mindset - Skillset - Toolset for a reason. A firearm, or any other sort of weapon, is useless or worse if the person who owns it is not fully aware of their surroundings and prepared to employ whatever level of force is necessary to defeat a violent attack. Guns are not magic talismans, their mere presence will not ward off evildoers.

ALL of us- not just women- need to be aware, alert and prepared do defend ourselves and our loved ones. The government and the police are not responsible for that, though often enough various governments erect needless barricades that prevent the law abiding from defending themselves using the most effective available means of defense. The owners of commercial or private property are often enough not responsible for protecting those who come on their premises either, though some of them are quick to erect their own barricades to effective self defense.

There's much more to it than just carrying a gun...

JMHO, YMMV, FWIW,

lpl

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I couldn't agree more. I'm no expert. I have sold many guns to women but only when THEY were ready to make the commitment. Been trying to get my wife to do so for years.

I would love some background on the case, it sounds like a property liability case, ie. that the hotel is responsible for all actions on the property.

That being said, it is another reminder that we need to be aware of our surroundings.

Does CT have good CCW laws?

I like that it's the womans fault she got attacked. When my daughter went to school she got teased so bad about her buck teeth I told the princepal I was getting her a little baseball bat to take to school if he didn't do anything. His mouth fell open about three feet. He was fianlly fired for scaming money off the school which I had reported to the shool board from on of his deals once.
I would say that a woman with kids in tow thats accousted should just drop the guy and then get a medal from the city for extreme garbage removal.

The hotel is blaming the woman because the woman is blaming the hotel. She's suing them because a crime was committed on their property. If anybody can sue you because you can't stop all crime on your property (and you can't) then you can't run a business.

Does CT have good CCW laws?

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CT is a "May Issue state" meaning if you have a clean record, complete the pistol class, pay several permit fees; then if through their infinite wisdom deem you worthy,they may issue you one. That being said the process more than complex than just the class and a background check as the state is transitioning from local permits to state permits. A permit is required to purchase a pistol as well as transport it in CT.

- If you are carrying your handgun lawfully (meaning you have a legal permit to carry a concealed pistol or revolver and that weapon is registered and owned by you) and someone sees it, its' silhouette, or if someone finds out you are carrying it (IE, should you tell someone who tells someone else etc...) you can be charged with the following offenses: 53a-181, Breach of Peace in the 2nd Degree (you have recklessly created a risk of annoyance or alarm and you have created a hazardous condition); 53a-64, Reckless Endangerment in the 2nd Degree (it can be considered recklessly engaging in conduct which creates a risk of injury).

Doesn't everyone just love how exercising your constitutional rights is considered breach of peace in this state?
Hopefully I can get outta here soon.

You can of course be arrested for those, but having a holstered weapon is far from being "risky" behavior. Additionally, there is no law against openly carrying a handgun if you possess a Permit to Carry Pistols and Revolvers.

It should be pointed out, that since the Goldberg case, no one has been arrested for openly carrying a handgun. People have been hassled though.

You do NOT need a permit to purchase or transport a gun. An eligibility certificate can be obtained that will allow you to purchase a handgun. The eligibility certificate is shall issue and not subject to the "suitability" clause that causes the permit to carry to be "may issue." You only need a permit to transport a gun if it does not meet one of the exceptions listed in Title 29, Chapter 529, Sec. 29-35.

The hotel is blaming the woman because the woman is blaming the hotel. She's suing them because a crime was committed on their property. If anybody can sue you because you can't stop all crime on your property (and you can't) then you can't run a business.

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I agree with this but, the hotel's lawyers wrote this:

Now the owner of the Connecticut hotel is expressing "regret" and "sympathy" after hotel lawyers said in court documents she was careless and negligent. As part of their defense, the hotel's lawyers said that the victim "failed to exercise due care for her own safety and the safety of her children and proper use of her senses and facilities,"

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The hotel couldn't have adequately protected her so the lawyers simply should have said that, not blame her for the rape. I don't care how good a persons situational awareness and avoidance skills are they still can become the victims of a crime, especially in a notoriously dangerous parking garage with many places that a criminal can conceal and hide himself. This is why we carry guns, otherwise we wouldn't need them now would we.

You only need a permit to transport a gun if it does not meet one of the exceptions listed in Title 29, Chapter 529, Sec. 29-35.

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Those exceptions are a joke, they only allow you to take it home from the store and to be repaired, in addition it must be locked and unloaded in the trunk while doing either. To even take it to the target range you need a permit.

It should be pointed out, that since the Goldberg case, no one has been arrested for openly carrying a handgun. People have been hassled though.

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Your being disingenuous. Goldberg was not open carrying, he had it concealed under his shirt but was revealed for a moment when he reached for his wallet. Someone gets "alarmed" calls the police and then promptly pin him up against a wall and charge him with breach of peace because someone was "alarmed". So if that's what happens for concealed carrying and someone discovering it, you can sure bet exactly the same if not worse treatment if your openly carrying.

Well Lee is right it is awareness and preperation. Some people will refuse to look for danger but only react when it happens. Many trainers give only one method. A person may not shoot but they may use mace{surefire} or a taser. A flashlight is also a tactical weapon worth teaching. I'm disappointed in many instructors today that don't look at weapons use as a whole. Whats good for one will not suit or be used by another. To teach self defense for todays environment you need to be strong in one or two disaplines or proficieant in a couple. Your choices are talking your way out of it, firearms ,light and mace or taser. Canes and walking sticks. running like hell. Ive done em all.



Jim

My sig line says Mindset - Skillset - Toolset for a reason. A firearm, or any other sort of weapon, is useless or worse if the person who owns it is not fully aware of their surroundings and prepared to employ whatever level of force is necessary to defeat a violent attack. Guns are not magic talismans, their mere presence will not ward off evildoers.

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Yes. The only people that should carry a gun are those who are willing and ready to carry a gun, and make the decisions that go along with carrying a gun.
That is some men and some women.
Not everyone.

It should be everyone's right, but not something everyone should do.


For example not carrying a gun and being at slightly higher risk of violent crime is probably a better option for people that would be unwilling to use proper restraint or make proper decisions in employing that firearm.
In fact I have known some people that are actually at greater risk because they have a weapon or martial arts skills that cause them to have excessive confidence.
If your son or daughter, wife or husband is more inclined to go to dangerous place because you encouraged them to get a Concealed Carry permit or enrolled them in self defense classes, then they may actually be less safe than before.


If someone is prone to say road rage, then carrying a gun in reach while they drive may not be a smart decision, being more likely to result in a negative misuse than the positive of not being a victim of a crime.
If they are more inclined to remain in bad situations, or escalate arguments because they have a weapon that gives confidence, then maybe they shouldn't have a weapon.
While another person may not be vigilant enough to insure thier children or someone else didn't get control of it during thier everyday activities. They might forget it in places, or let it fall into the wrong hands. If they know they are absent minded, then perhaps they shouldn't carry around a lethal weapon.

Every person is different, and while I think everyone should have the right to own and carry a firearm, not everyone should exercise one or both of those rights. So I would refrain from saying every man or women should carry a gun, or encouraging every man or woman to carry a gun.

The comments in this thread about guns, whose eligible to own and carry and what it takes to use same are simply not germane to the subject.

A women was raped, children were traumatized. There is a question of responsibility and the hotel lawyers are re-victimizing the women and her children to save face and money---positively shameful tactic and behavior, but typical for current society.

The fact that somebody other than the rapist is or might be responsible for this assault are puzzling, and quite disturbing. Did the property lack lighting, fences or walls or locked entrances? Were there no video cameras or active guards? The absence of these precautions might provide a basis for the women to sue and recover some for damages.

Why is the motel allowing their lawyers to use these distasteful tactics? Victimizing the victim is a sloppy and dangerous tactics unless there is some real proof the women invited the attack.

I'd like to know a lot more; don't really expect to get my wish; praying for the women and her children.




Does everyone see the same message stream? Can everyone read and comprehend at some minimum level? Evidence to answer and prove the affirmative answer to these questions doesn't readily flow from most of the responses.

Just took my wife shooting again today. She's a great shot as well. She surprised the heck out of me asking if I would mind her getting her own gun instead of using mine hahaha! I said let's go!

There's not but one circumstance where I can see a property owner being liable for crimes committed on the owned property: the owner knows that criminals are using his property and does not take steps to prevent that use. Even if the only step the owner is able to undertake is to inform the police of the criminal use of his property.

My safety is my responsibility. The proper use of weapons to ensure my safety is my responsibility. Choosing whether to enter an unsafe area is my responsibility. Making choices as to safe and unsafe areas is my responsibility.

A bar I once hung out at had a patron whose throat was slashed in the doorway. First violent incident of which I am aware. I didn't go back there until ten years later. Ten years with no further violent incidents. Sat with my back against the wall.

I have a low opinion of the hotel's attorneys and their despicable tactics. I also have a low opinion of the victim for suing the hotel.

I am amazed at the turn this thread has taken. So only certain people should have firearms? The Brady Coalition would agree.

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That's not what was said. In fact, this is EXACTLY what was said:

It should be everyone's right, but not something everyone should do.

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The point being that it takes more than a firearm to make you safe. It takes vigilance and will to defend yourself - the very same things that you need even if you DON'T have a gun. A gun is not a magic talisman with which you warn off eeeeevil juju. It is a tool.

It's horrid that this woman was raped, and even more horrid that her kids were forced to be witnesses. It's unfortunate that the hotel attorney's couldn't find better words to express their defense.

But that doesn't mean that the woman has the right to expect that the hotel will provide for her safety, any more than we have the right to expect that of the police or any other venue.

My safety is my responsibility. The proper use of weapons to ensure my safety is my responsibility. Choosing whether to enter an unsafe area is my responsibility. Making choices as to safe and unsafe areas is my responsibility.

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Absolutely. Personal responsibility for one's health and safety is not something unique to women or to men - it is the responsibility of every adult. Abdicating that responsibility is flatly WRONG.

This is the reason why Im paying to get my girlfriend a ccw I already gave her my snubby .38. (shes better with it than me Im a semi-auto type of guy)

Here in Tampa earlier this week a girl was raped in a busy parking garage at 3:00pm in the afternoon. Near the college me and her both attend. Im waiting on mine in the mail, but I cant be by her side all the time.

Yosemite Sam said:

Does CT have good CCW laws?

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Actually, for fookin' New England? Yes it does. A lot less restrictions on where we can carry than even some southern "gun friendly" states. We can even legally carry into a full blown bar, unlike Florida and Texas. And even Arizona until next month.

The process is largely determined by the town you live in because you must get the temporary permit from your town. The part that sucks is towns often "impose" restrictions above and beyond what the state requires and, even though it is not supposed to, it WILL deplay a permit being issued for a long time if you don't comply. Such BS requirements are interviews with the Chief of Police, supplying written letters of recommendation, etc. Smaller towns are the best. I live in Naugatuck and both my wife and I had our temporary permits in well under the state mandated 8 week period. From there, you just go to a police barracks and get the state permit (permanent), which is a snap. No appointment required and you walk out with it in minutes.

Overall gun laws are pretty lax FOR A NEW ENGLAND STATE, too. No magazine capacity restrictions, can carry hollow points, no "approved" handgun list, etc. The only thing is the stupid AWB that the state still has. But, you can have full auto (no select fire) and silencers are perfectly legal. Just can't have a post ban semi-auto rifle that takes detachable magazines with more than one "evil" feature, like a pistol grip, collapsible stock, bayonet lug, etc. I get looks with my SKS decked to the hilt with everything all that is "evil", but I'm perfectly legal. It doesn't use a detachable magazine.