TX - Can a normal restaurant put up a 51% sign just for giggles?

"People's Restaurant"?

What, do they have pictures of Mao Tse Tung on the walls or something?

I used to live near the People's Food Co-op, but I sincerely doubt that anyone who works in the oil business has ever been inside the place. For one thing, they don't sell any [strike]food[/strike] meat.

Call the restaurant manager or owner and ask.

You might be surprised at a restaurant's profit centers.

A $4 Budweiser is generally much more profitable than a $6 sandwich that comes with a pickle, salad, fries and condiments.

Ah.

We don't have such a law here, so I'm not familiar with it. Here, you can carry as long as you're legal to drive.

But maybe they sell a lot of beer with lunch?

If it were me, I'd stop patronizing the place once they put up the sign - wouldn't want to give them my money.

If it were me, I'd stop patronizing the place once they put up the sign - wouldn't want to give them my money.

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Me, too.

I mean, a bar and grill would probably have to post the sign, so I wouldn't blame them. But if they do it just because they want to? Hell with them.

Probably wouldn't eat at "People's" either.

There are several points here:

1. If the restaurant has posted the incorrect sign, you can tell by looking at their actual license. If on the license it says "License = Blue" they are not 51% and you can carry in the establishment regardless of how they've posted. If it says, "License = Red", then they are 51% and you cannot legally carry in the establishment.

2. In Texas, the law regarding prohibition on CHL holders to not carry in places that receive 51% of their REVENUE (not profit) from alcohol sales for CONSUMPTION on the PREMISES is just that. It doesn't matter what sign they have posted -- it is up to the CHL holder to know whether it is, or is not, a 51% establishment, and the only positive way to tell is to look at the license itself.

3. As of 01 September, 2009 it is a defense to prosecution that the business did not properly post its 51% sign if they are, in fact, a 51% establishment. This doesn't mean a CHL holder won't be charged for carrying in a 51% establishment when that business failed to post the warning sign or posted the incorrect sign, but he can raise it as a defense during trial, and should be acquitted. That doesn't help in this case because it is the converse instance. The business posted 51% when they are not, likely, actually a 51% business.

Finally, if the business is posting the incorrect sign, you can contact the TABC. They will send an agent to the establishment and force them to post the correct sign consistent with their actual license. My guess is that this place doesn't want the big ugly 30.06 sign on their front door, so they chose to post a 51% sign instead. Or, even more likely, the TABC sent them a packet of all the signs, and someone picked the wrong one from the box.

Not to sound like a stupid hick, but whats a 51% sign?

Look at the post right above yours.

2. In Texas, the law regarding prohibition on CHL holders to not carry in places that receive 51% of their REVENUE (not profit) from alcohol sales for CONSUMPTION on the PREMISES is just that. It doesn't matter what sign they have posted -- it is up to the CHL holder to know whether it is, or is not, a 51% establishment, and the only positive way to tell is to look at the license itself.

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The sign is merely a notice of the above.

Don't worry, I live in West Virginia and you DON'T sound like a stupid hick. I am very familiar with what that sounds like.

Contact TABC. They'll send an officer out to make sure the signage is correct, and if necessary remove any improperly posted 51% signs.

I would suggest contacting TABC if you want to keep going there, but honestly why would you want to support this place if they are doing what you think they are? They better have awesome fish tacos or something.

we shouldn't necessarily assume it was done in malice. as a previous poster said, they may have simply put up the wrong sign in ignorance of both TABC and CHL rules.

the way i see it, you have two options if you wish to continue eating there:
1. contact the manager or owner, and try to ascertain their motive in putting up the sign and/or educate them as to their mistake.
2. contact TABC and have them handle it.

of course, a third option is just stop going there.

and as an aside, i really wish texas didn't have such hang-ups around liquor laws. why would setting foot in a bar make an otherwise responsible citizen suddenly start shooting up the place? no rule says you must drink in the bar. my own bar days are pretty much done, but i would still like to see the state chill out on this issue. too many off-limits places as it is...

Improper 51% sign

If you just step into the facility and look at their license you will learn immediately whether they are really 51% or not. If not, it doesn't matter what sign they have posted, you can carry there. The sign is meaningless. The converse is true, as well -- f you run into an establishment that has merely posted the "Unlawful possession" sign for places that sell or serve alcohol but do not derive 51% of their revenue for sale for on-site consumption, or not posted at all, yet really does get 51% of its revenue from sale of alcohol for on-site consumption, you cannot legally carry there regardless of the sign. You can just defend yourself in court at trial, and should win.

texas bulldog said:

we shouldn't necessarily assume it was done in malice. as a previous poster said, they may have simply put up the wrong sign in ignorance of both TABC and CHL rules.

the way i see it, you have two options if you wish to continue eating there:
1. contact the manager or owner, and try to ascertain their motive in putting up the sign and/or educate them as to their mistake.
2. contact TABC and have them handle it.

of course, a third option is just stop going there.

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This is a very well reasoned post full of very good advice. Plenty of 51% signs go up in the wrong places out of ignorance, not malice. The underlying cause is this: TABC sends a "packet" to everyone who requests and is granted a liquor license, which covers both kinds of licenses and has ALL of the signs one could need regardless of which type of license they actually hold. Many people just put up all the signs because they don't know any better. It is not against the law to walk past an improperly posted 51% sign (or an improperly posted 30.06, for that matter, such as the ones at George R. Brown during gun shows).

texas bulldog said:

and as an aside, i really wish texas didn't have such hang-ups around liquor laws. why would setting foot in a bar make an otherwise responsible citizen suddenly start shooting up the place? no rule says you must drink in the bar. my own bar days are pretty much done, but i would still like to see the state chill out on this issue. too many off-limits places as it is...

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Southern Baptists have run the majority of this state for many generations, the demon rum is high on their list for needing control to keep people from getting drunk. Why do you think bars don't open until after church on Sundays?

Frankly, it's awfully stupid if you ask me.

Frankly, it's awfully stupid if you ask me.

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It's better than it used to be. I remember when I was young it was illegal to sell underwear on Sundays...... among many other items. Bizarre.....

I remember when I was young it was illegal to sell underwear on Sundays

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No business (with very few exceptions) was allowed to be open on Sunday's in the town I grew up in. It's still the same today.

I lived in Texas for 26 years and I know most of the CHL laws fairly well. If any business wants to prohibit CHLers all they have to do is to post a 30.06 sign at their entrances. Doesn't matter if they sell alcohol or not. They don't have to put up any "phony" 51% signs.

I have not read the various responses but, NO, they may NOT put up the 51% sign just for the hell of it. Contact the management and ask if they in fact get 51% of annual revenue from on premises consumption of alcohol (in which case, it is valid). If not, ask why they have the sign up. If they are doing it just to be jerks, report them to the TABC. The proper sign would be (ironically) the 30.06 Criminal Trespass by License Holder sign.

Don't feel bad swiftak,I never heard of a 51% sign until just now and never heard of a 30.06 sign until I joined THR.

John E. said:

If it were me, I'd stop patronizing the place once they put up the sign - wouldn't want to give them my money.

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51% signs are required by law.

bdickens, 51% signs are only required by law if the establishment actually makes 51% (or more) of it's revenue from sales of alcohol for consumption on the premises. The OP's question derives from the fact that he doesn't think the establishment sells that much alcohol, thus making the sign A) false and B) not required.

That said, I tend to agree with John E. if the owner posted the sign with the intent of keeping permit-holders out. If it was an honest mistake, let it go, but if he put it up with the intent to discriminate against permit-holders, then I wouldn't want to favor him with my money, either. I would, however, press the issue to force him to put up the big ugly sign (30.06) to display his opinions more visibly, though.