Russian-American Amory?

That is the only real AK on the market, being made in the Izmash arsenal, they are produced in the same factory as Russia's fully automatic AK's. It might be cheaper to buy one and convert it back to its ak glory yourself, but this is the AK you want.

RAA imports "sporting" configuration Saiga rifles:http://www.raacfirearms.com/Saiga.htm

Atlantic then converts them to the original AK pattern. You can buy the base rifle for about $300 and convert it yourself as well. Check out http://www.forum.saiga-12.com for all you could want to know.

Their quality is impeccable. The quality of ATLARMS' conversion shop is what you should be looking at.

However, the thing that ATLARMS is selling may have been "monkey-fingered" along the way.

Russian-American Armory DID NOT import what you see there - it was heavily modified after RAAC imported it.

Umm, a converted saiga almost always DOES take standard AK-47 mags. That is one of the purposes of the conversion.

If $700 is OK with you, go straight to K-Var and buy a "SGL-20" or "SGL-21" which is basically a factory approved AK conversion of the Saiga. It starts in the same Izhmash factory but has a different importer, and the conversion is done right. If you want to spend less, there are many other AK options below $500, none with the same quality, or you can buy a base Saiga for $350-400 and then convert it yourself for $120-200, depending on how you do it and what parts you use. If you are not super mechanically inclined and want a nice AK, I would get the K-Var SGL model. Yes, a little pricey, but no fiddling required.

Edit: looks like the SGL-20 is selling for as little as $649 right now.

http://www.k-var.com/shop/home.php?cat=352

Labyrinth666 said:

Okay, but before this turns into a "buy a saiga" rally, what about the rifle I linked at the top.

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I hate to break this to you, but that's a converted Saiga.

+1 on what nalioth said.

I won't lie the idea of paying nearly a grand for an AK like that makes me laugh.

Labrynth

I think everybody is saying that's a lot of money for what is a) most assuredly a converted Saiga, a b) they are not sure how good of a conversion it is.

I am pretty sure that is what they are saying about the rifle in your OP. Now you may find that it is a great conversion, in which case, you may be happy with it but you would have still paid almost a grand for an AK.

Everyone seems to agree that, having been made at Izmash, what was actually made at Izmash will be 100% top notch. Since a lost of stuff had to be replaced to comply with 922r, and they don't import them the way you see it in that ad, there is much question as to how much Izmash is left and how well it all was done.

At that price, I think you are really gambling.

You should do a search and then post a new thread...

Everyone seems to agree that, having been made at Izmash, what was actually made at Izmash will be 100% top notch. Since a lost of stuff had to be replaced to comply with 922r, and they don't import them the way you see it in that ad, there is much question as to how much Izmash is left and how well it all was done.

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In general the crucial parts are the barrel, bolt, carrier, receiver, trunion, and rivets holding those together. Those all stay the same on nearly all conversions.

Trigger groups are usually replaced. TAPCO and K-Var both have perfectly functional US-made trigger groups.

Furniture is usually replaced. You have to work hard to make furniture so bad that it causes reliability problems. TAPCO, K-Var, and Ironwood (for wood) are the most common options it seems. All are fine. In my personal experience the K-Var furniture doesn't seem any better than the TAPCO furniture, and TAPCO is usually cheaper. Ironwood makes terrific wood if you want wood.

Z-Michigan said:

Everyone seems to agree that, having been made at Izmash, what was actually made at Izmash will be 100% top notch. Since a lost of stuff had to be replaced to comply with 922r, and they don't import them the way you see it in that ad, there is much question as to how much Izmash is left and how well it all was done.

Click to expand...

In general the crucial parts are the barrel, bolt, carrier, receiver, trunion, and rivets holding those together. Those all stay the same on nearly all conversions.

Trigger groups are usually replaced. TAPCO and K-Var both have perfectly functional US-made trigger groups.

Furniture is usually replaced. You have to work hard to make furniture so bad that it causes reliability problems. TAPCO, K-Var, and Ironwood (for wood) are the most common options it seems. All are fine. In my personal experience the K-Var furniture doesn't seem any better than the TAPCO furniture, and TAPCO is usually cheaper. Ironwood makes terrific wood if you want wood.

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So you're okay with bullet guides that are glued in place? A dysfunctional bullet guide pretty much disables a converted Saiga (yes, there are companies out there that have done so [talked about right here on THR]).

As far as the trigger groups, you've obviously not suffered "trigger slap" from Century or K-Var trigger groups produced for them in the USA. Neither of these are what I'd call "perfectly functional".

Not defending a bullet guide glued in place. That would be a hack-job to me. Likewise, not defending the CIA slappy triggers. The SGL I shot had no slap, with its recent K-Var group. If you know of a way to meet 922(r) and have a fully converted Saiga with all these parts original, let me know!

labyrinth, this is what you want to buy http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=156027374

buy a US made tapco trigger group only $30-$45 pends where you buy it. Buy a stock, I would get a K-var yes $50 but its the long length not the warsaw cheap tapco $35 stock which sucks if you have long arms!! I did my conversion, if I could do it you can do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wow I thought I never do it! theres alot of videos on the internet and theres a few picture manuals to do it on the web. It is better than an Ak47 I think! Yes you can fit surplus(standerd) mags just buy a bullet guide its like $30 I forget. But you can put thermold mags in your saiga after converting, after you install bullet guide they will not fit back!

*edit* once you install a bullet guide you can still fit those thermold mags but they will do not really work good... You can put a hand grip like for recoil But this is a older photo. This is a grip http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=155736250

I like this better than the ak47 because it shoots better, but the ak47 is original!

Monkey Fingered ???? Naolith please explain .

We also clearly cover in the item description that the base rifle is imported by RAAC and then the rifles are converted once they reach the US , the item description never states that the convereted rifle is as imported by RAAC.

Atlantic Firearms said:

Monkey Fingered ???? Naolith please explain .

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One never knows who converts the Saigas you guys sell.

One jobber has been reported here using glue or similar fastening agent on their Saiga conversions in a critical area.

Nobody knows if that jobber supplies you with conversions, so I warned about this.

Atlantic Firearms said:

We also clearly cover in the item description that the base rifle is imported by RAAC and then the rifles are converted once they reach the US , the item description never states that the convereted rifle is as imported by RAAC.

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I am confused on the pricing.

What I don't understand is how you have fully converted Arsenal SGL 20s for
$680 and a half converted SGL 10 for $740 ?

Why would someone buy a non converted gun for $60 more than the real thing?

Naolith , 10 -4 no problem !! We are not aware of any of our builders using glue who was this ?

Atlantic Firearms said:

We are not aware of any of our builders using glue who was this ?

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My saiga/ak-"103" conversion problems - Saiga-12.com

Glue.

Atlantic,

Who does your Saiga conversions? And what have they done to convert the Siagas to accept highcap mags?

The picture on your website looks like the rifle has a thermold/mastermolder mag. These will work in my Saiga by just filling down the rear notch. However, if that is all that has been done the rifle will not take standard AK mags. Which I believe is OP's primary concern.

IMHO a complete conversion would require a bullet guide and opening up the magwell, or even better- reworking the front of the magwell so that the notch is identical to mil-spec. Has this been done on those rifles?