45ACP - some leading up front - more crimp?

Status
Not open for further replies.
E

editingfx

Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2009
Messages
245
Running a starting load of 7.8 AA5 under 200gr LSWC in my Dan Wesson 45 gov't size (LOVE this gun!). Very slight taper crimp. OAL set as per other thread by using barrel as a gauge. Getting a small bit of leading (streaks, not chunks) in the first inch of the barrel. Was suggested to me to try a heavier crimp as an alternative to upping the charge. Comments?

PS - I'd prefer this approach if it's valid, as the gun is running fine otherwise.
 
If you are crimping to .469" - .470" or thereabouts as you should be, more crimp will not change anything. In fact, it could make leading worse by squeezing the bullets undersized for the bore.

7.8 grains AA #5 is very near max with some 200 grain bullet designs.

Maybe you are just too hot for the bullet alloy you have?
(Bullets too soft for max load velocity?)

rc
 
Hey RC!
Crimping to .473
7.8gr is listed as starting in AA's load data for a 200gr LSWC.
These are Missouri Bullet Co. 18 Brinell.

reply to stork - the lube is dark blue in color, if that says anything.
 
Last edited:
Softer is better. The bullet base is capable of obturating to fully fill the grooves if the bullet is soft. Pure lead can be easily driven to 1000 fps without leading if the lube is doing its job and the bullet is sized .0005 to .0015 over groove diameter.

Without slugging your barrel, I would speculate the bullet you're using is bore diameter or smaller and probably has a hard lube. This allows the gas flames to slip by the base and soften the side of the bullet. I'm thinking the bullets have hard lube because if it was a soft mix it would do its job and seal the bore.

If you're looking for a good target load with 200 SWC, I'd reduce the load down to around 700 fps. Your accuracy will definitely improve and paper couldn't care less what speed the bullet is going.

FWIW
 
Crimping to .473 7.8gr is listed as starting in AA's load data
Click to expand...
Well, your crimp is too loose then, but I doubt it will change the leading to make it tighter like it should be.

Just baseing my guess on Lyman #49.
They show 8.0 as Max with one 200 grain SWC bullet design.
And 8.5 with another SWC design.

Which 200 SWC bullet design is AA's load data talking about?

rc
 
Which 200 SWC bullet design is AA's load data talking about?
Click to expand...
No.5 200 LC SWC 7.8 902 8.7 1,025 19,400 1.190

How about extra bullet lubing before loading? Maybe it just needs some more "slick" until it gets goin'? (Missouri Bullet uses a dark blue lube) Like I said, leading is gone after an inch or so.
 
"(Missouri Bullet uses a dark blue lube)"
Is the lube 'hard' (like a crayon) or soft (like butter fresh from the fridge)?
 
Dunk'm in Lee liquid Alox and see what happens.

Can't hurt anything other then being messy.

rc
 
Getting a small bit of leading (streaks, not chunks) in the first inch of the barrel.
Click to expand...
Crimp won't help. Bullet is undersized, or too hard. You need a bigger bullet, more pressure, or a softer bullet, or maybe two out of three.
 
MBC lube hardness is about in-between the crayon & cold butter analogy.

LOL.... so I need a slicker, softer, bigger, slower bullet - under more pressure!

Maybe it's time to switch to plated. Anyone want 900 LSWC?
 
7.8gr is listed as starting in AA's load data for a 200gr LSWC.
Click to expand...
and it goes to 8.7.

I would use more powder and see if the leading went away. Next time I would buy 12 BHN bullets for the .45 with it's low pressure.
 
I think some of us were trying to suggest you drop the powder charge just a scooch and see if lower velocity helps.

You really don't need 900+ FPS for killing beer cans and paper targets.

Another thing to try would be faster powder then AA#5.
A swift kick in the azz with Bullseye or 700x might bump up the bullet to seal better. You would use about 2/3 as much powder and perhaps not have as much heat on the bullet either.

rc
 
Thanks all! Tonight I'll go up & down one notch on the Lee Auto Disc, make up 2 sets of testers. I'll post back with results tomorrow.

Oh, and BTW, the paper targets here in Georgia are REAL mean!
 
Oh, and BTW, the paper targets here in Georgia are REAL mean!
Click to expand...

Ya! I know, I cranked the return wheel to fast once at our indoor range and the dang target almost got me, but thankfully I have a Black Belt! HEEEEYYYAAAAA







Actually I'm a short, fat, round, bald headed elf. But a tough one!
 
A swift kick in the azz with Bullseye or 700x might bump up the bullet to seal better. You would use about 2/3 as much powder and perhaps not have as much heat on the bullet either.
Click to expand...
A good idea.
 
I have just acquired a DW PM7 myself that I would like to roll some lead for. Missouri sells a couple different grade bullets for the 45. One is a 18BHN for major power factor and another is 12BHN for target. I would imagine that your bullets might need to be pushed a little harder. I have done a bit of snooping around different lead bullet companys, ( Penn, Master Cast, Missouri and many more) and they all make 45 bullets in a 17 to 20 BHN. These ones are all made for comp or hot loads. It seems like even hot 45 loads are still pretty low psi compared to some. Don't know if this helps but I ordered some Penn 165gr TCBB's for my 40. Penn told me these can be pushed to 1600 fps. They said to stick with HS-6, power pistol or something in that range. Jacketed loading seems so much easier but a lot more expensive. You probably need to experiment with powders and velocitys to get just what will work. When you do let me know:).
 
I am using the Missouri 200 LSWC 12 BHN with 3.9gr Bullseye with a OAL 1.24 and a .470 crimp. I have only shot 100 so far as a test. I will load 200 more Saturday before heading to the range.
 
I've used Mastercast', Magnus', and Missouri Bullets' 200 gr lswc. I've been very satisfied with the quality of all three, but all have leaded the breach-end of my barrel. I've slugged the barrel and purchased correctly sized bullets, tried different powders, adjusted crimp, adjusted charges, adjusted COAL...the only thing that has prevented leading in my .45 is a thin coating of Lee liquid alox, applied and allowed to dry overnight. YMMV, but this is what works for me.

On a side note, I've been loading MB's 158 lswc with light, medium and hot charges in 38 and 357 for several years with nary a bit of leading. Go figure!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top