How do you tell cops you're armed in traffic stop?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Here in Ohio the common procedure i have heard is to simply say: "I have a concealed carry permit, and i am carrying a handgun (say where it is)". Alot of cops seem to be kind of baffled when you tell them that as concealed carry isnt that common in my area, so people i know always offer to keep their hands on the wheel in plain sight or step out of the car and let the officer retrieve their weapon if he/she feels so inclined.
 
whats the end result on the fairfax case? been a while
Click to expand...
According to the VCDL, the victim elected not to pursue his legal remedies.

That's a shame because that's absolutely the worst CCW false arrest I've ever heard of where the victim wasn't physically harmed by the police. Those are the luckiest cops in the history of the Commonwealth of Virginia. One hopes they learned something from their victim's undeserved mercy. I have my doubts.
 
Well to answer the original question, I would keep 3 things in mind.

1. Keep your hands visible and still.

2. Make sure you say "legally" before you say "armed" or whatever variation of.

As in "I am required to/ would like to inform you that I am LEGALLY carrying a firearm on my person.

3. Follow instructions and absolutely nothing more.

That should be easy enough to remember and will keep you in the clear.
 
The Bushmaster said:
Delta608...I live in America...Where do you live?
Click to expand...
I retired the same place you did and put 21 more in Law Enforcement...Sorry friend, like someone eloquently put, "You act like a jerk you get treated accordingly" (by the stopping officer) You would have thought at your old age you would have at least have some manners..
 
Last edited:
Delta608: What manners are you speaking of? You and Bushmaster seem to have a disagreement about the way to proceed (bordering on being downright rude to each other...which isn't going to work out well...), but having read both of your posts, I've yet to determine what you are advocating.

Who is acting like a "jerk" in these theoretical scenarios?
 
I live near Philadelphia and had the opportunity to talk to one of Philly's finest about this very topic. He said that even though there is no disclosure law, an officer will watch as you handle your wallet and look for a permit/license to carry. If he sees it, he will ask for both the gun and license and run a check on both. His advice was to tell the officer up front and follow directions. He said that most police officers will appreciate your cooperation and it will make the interaction more comfortable for everyone involved.
 
That's a shame because that's absolutely the worst CCW false arrest I've ever heard of where the victim wasn't physically harmed by the police. Those are the luckiest cops in the history of the Commonwealth of Virginia. One hopes they learned something from their victim's undeserved mercy. I have my doubts.

could be did you see the tape?
 
an officer will watch as you handle your wallet and look for a permit/license to carry.
Click to expand...

After having that exact thing happen to me, I'm generally careful to retrieve my D/L a bit more discreetly. If I've not committed some offense that involves my gun, then I really see no need for the nice officer to borrow and "run" my gun. If I was speeding, so be it. The gun doesn't enter into it. I don't need to discover how good or bad he is at gun safety or whether or not what I'm carrying that day does or doesn't show up in PA's oft-debated "its-not-a-gun-owner-registration" database (chances are it won't).
 
I have only been asked twice in 18 years, but showed both, and was never asked anything about the pistol license, just handed it back.
 
could be did you see the tape?
Click to expand...
No tape that I'm aware of.

The president of VCDL talked to contacts in the Fairfax County PD and confirmed the basics of the story. Nobody seems to know why the victim didn't pursue it. You'd have to work hard to make up something worse that didn't involve overt racial slurs or criminal violence on the part of the LEOs. It's almost as though they worked from a checklist of ways to commit a false arrest. As I said, they need to get down on their knees every night and thank whatever god they worship that it was him and not somebody else they falsely arrested.
 
Sam1911 said:
Delta608: What manners are you speaking of? You and Bushmaster seem to have a disagreement about the way to proceed (bordering on being downright rude to each other...which isn't going to work out well...), but having read both of your posts, I've yet to determine what you are advocating.

Who is acting like a "jerk" in these theoretical scenarios?
Click to expand...

Sam I was advocating that it would not hurt to show or have manners when talking to an officer..I was quoting a poster, who summed it up (for me anyway), that if you act like a jerk (to the traffic stop officer) the officer would respond in kind..Sorry, to the "Its non of his business" poster, I was not implying he was a jerk, but perhaps did lacked civility/manners ( in my opinion)..As everything does not boil down as every cop is trying to take our guns..As most anti's get their ammunition, from those type of posts. ...
 
Last edited:
Sam I was advocating that it would not hurt to show or have manners when talking to an officer.
Click to expand...

Oh certainly, I think I understand your point. A professional level of courtesy is helpful in all interactions. However, it is good not to go farther than necessary in being "courteous." I don't know that the "none of his business" poster intended that to be rude, as much as factual -- the gun isn't pertinent to the traffic violation so it really isn't any concern of the officer.

It may be possible to disclose far more than is required -- or than may be healthy for you -- simply in an effort to be "helpful" or "courteous." Keep it polite, keep it LEGALLY "on-topic," keep it BRIEF.
 
Oh certainly, I think I understand your point. A professional level of courtesy is helpful in all interactions. However, it is good not to go farther than necessary in being "courteous." I don't know that the "none of his business" poster intended that to be rude, as much as factual -- the gun isn't pertinent to the traffic violation so it really isn't any concern of the officer.
Click to expand...
If there's no durty to inform, it ISN'T his business. If there's no LEGAL duty to inform, not informing is no more "impolite" than not disclosing your religion or sexual preference. You can NOT inform him and still be perfectly polite.

There's a difference between politeness and obsequiousness.
 
No tape that I'm aware of.


as far as i know all cops in fairfax have both cameras and i believe they are miked as well.
 
as far as i know all cops in fairfax have both cameras and i believe they are miked as well.
Click to expand...
That's why i said "as far as I know".

If the victim decided not to pursue the matter, he wouldn't have FOIA requested any recordings, audio or video.

VCDL is rock solid. If they say it happened and the guy neglected to pursue it, that's what happened.
 
I have a question that hasn't been asked, but let me preface. I own a Glock 20 10MM Auto. I carry this weapon daily - open. Sometimes I carry concealed, but not intentionally, my Jacket is just big. I do *not* have any kind of license or permit to do so (well, I do, 2nd Amendment, but I digress), and have no supporting paperwork to hand over to the officer. I routinely carry my Glock loaded with one in the chamber. If I get stopped, how do I handle this?


For reference sake, I am in Vermont, the greatest state in the union, for Vermont not only does not restrict carry of a firearm, but believes requiring a permit to do so so utterly ridiculous that they do not *offer* permits. Alaska is the closest to this in legal terms, however they offer a permit purely so that when you travel you can have one (even though it is not required).

My Second question is, how does the reciprocation work? I don't have a permit, but my state does not offer one. Does my driver's license function as my permit?


Hopefully I get a few of you riled up with the first paragraph (in a good way!), and realize there is hope, for Vermont is not swayed by liberals - as full of hippies as we are!
 
Here's another situation that's one partial answer to Sam1911's question, where and why might it be helpful to inform when it's NOT a duty?

I pulled two pickups over for speed (57 in a 35 zone) a couple weeks ago; as I interacted with the driver of the first of the two, his hands were visibly shaking (i.e. when he was handing me his license etc.). I said, "You look nervous; what do I need to know about in the truck?" He said, "I have a CPL and there's a gun in the truck, and I've just never been stopped with a weapon before."

Ordinarily, I leave things be when someone tells me they have a permit and are armed (though I do check the validity of the permit). With his nervous behavior, and being outnumbered (two occupants per truck) and in a remote location, I had him step to the back of the rig and got & held onto the gun (a Para P14-45) for the duration of the stop. Wrote him a ticket, he was polite, and everything went swell.

Was it his duty to tell me about the gun or his permit? No; no duty in our state. In this situation, it was a good idea, though. I could see he was scared, and that's all I knew until he gave me a plausible explanation for the scared behavior. He didn't NEED to be scared, but he was.

To extract a moral from the story, I might say: if you FEEL like you should tell an officer you're armed, you probably should, whether the law tells you to or not. If you have a moral or intellectual issue with that, go ahead and work it out, but in the meantime, go with your gut.
 
How do you tell cops you're armed in traffic stop?

What's the best way to handle a traffic stop? We were taught to put your hands interlaced ontop of your head -or- glued to the steering wheel and the second the cop approaches your window say, politely, that you are armed. What do you think is the best approach?
Click to expand...

Unless they specifically ask if I have any weapons or firearms in the automobile or if I am carrying anything...

I don't volunteer that information.

Nor am I required to do so in FL.






lol @ "on top of head" that would be funny. :D


After having that exact thing happen to me, I'm generally careful to retrieve my D/L a bit more discreetly. If I've not committed some offense that involves my gun, then I really see no need for the nice officer to borrow and "run" my gun. If I was speeding, so be it. The gun doesn't enter into it. I don't need to discover how good or bad he is at gun safety or whether or not what I'm carrying that day does or doesn't show up in PA's oft-debated "its-not-a-gun-owner-registration" database (chances are it won't).
Click to expand...

Agreed.

The firearm should not even enter the equation.

Agreed, certainly -- IF the gun is likely to come into view unexpectedly. I've often advocated informing the officer if you're asked to step from the car, for example, and of keeping your D/L and other items distant from where you keep your gun so that you won't have the opportunity to appear to reach for it.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

Otherwise -- what they don't know won't hurt them and can only hurt you.

Not in my state. The PA LCTF is issued by the sheriff's of each county and they are not linked to the D/L. If you don't inform, they don't know.
Click to expand...

Same in FL.

Well at least pinellas county -- no linking.
 
Last edited:
Deanimator said:
How about something even "better"?

This guy was "respectful" and tried to "put the cop at his ease".

What did it get him?

Sorry, I'm obeying the letter of the law and NOTHING more.

Ohio requires notification WHEN ARMED. So naturally, that gets pushed back to people wanting you to notify when NOT armed. Maybe it'd make the cop even more "at his ease" if you kept the gun locked, unloaded in your trunk. Or maybe if you didn't have a CHL at all. Or maybe no guns at all.

I concern myself SOLELY with the law, which I work hard to know and be current on. I'm not interested in extra-legal "courtesies" or putting people at their "ease" when it's not required by law.

And I don't believe that a CHL is a "get out of jail free card". If you don't want speeding tickets, don't speed.

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
The Virginia Citizens Defense League reports three Fairfax County, VA police officers are involved in a false arrest of a North Carolina man.
**********************************************************

We haven't had any issues with the Fairfax County police in quite a while now. I have found them to be one of the best run police agencies in Virginia, stated Philip Van Cleave.

However, three officers tarnished that image last week when they unlawfully arrested a North Carolina resident who was legally carrying a handgun and had a North Carolina CHP.

Hold on tight - this is a weird story.

The gun owner was pulled over for running through a red light, a charge which the gun owner disputes.

The gun owner, believing that he had to disclose he was lawfully armed as they do in North Carolina, dutifully told the officer he had a NC CHP and was indeed armed.

The officer seemed to ignore the statement, but very shortly two more patrol units pulled up. The next thing the gun owner knew he is in a "felony stop" mode. He was asked to walk backwards towards the officers, who then disarmed and handcuffed him.

While trying to unloaded his gun, THEY DROPPED IT ONTO THE ROAD!

The two officers and a SERGEANT then proceeded to tell him that he was under arrested for:

1. Having hollow point bullets, which they claimed were illegal in Virginia (!)
2. Taking a loaded gun across the state line, which the gun owner was told was a FELONY (!)
3. Having a concealed gun that the police said he couldn't have since he was from North Carolina (!!)

His car and gun were impounded and he was taken off to a magistrate.

The magistrate looked at the charges and told the police officers that they had just made a false arrest.

The officers pointed out the possession of hollow point bullets. The magistrate asked, "are they teflon coated?"

"No," replied on of the officers.

"Then they are legal."

Trying to find something that would stick and justify the false arrest, one of the officers said, "We couldn't verify that his North Carolina permit is valid."

The magistrate looked at the permit, noticed the phone number on the back where one can call to verify the permit, called the number, and within a few minutes found out the permit was indeed valid.

The gun owner was ordered to be released.

After being released from custody, the gun owner was given a hard time by another officer about getting his gun back, but he did finally get it back.

If all of that isn't bad enough, the arresting officer went ahead and gave the gun owner a ticket for the alleged offense of running a red light!

In essence, with that brilliant move, the officer was practically BEGGING the gun owner to PLEASE sue Fairfax Count for the false arrest!

I have already talked to my high-level contact with the Fairfax County PD about this entire situation and the gun owner has filed a formal complaint.

In the past, Fairfax County PD has been very good when such internal investigations are required. Now we will wait and see what happens.

What is clear is that Fairfax County PD needs to educate its officers on:

1. Possession of hollow point bullets
2. Reciprocity laws
3. Lawful carriage of firearms across state lines
4. Safe gun handling (a few years ago unsafe gun handling by an officer cause a gun to discharge, killing an unarmed, handcuffed man)





-------------------------------------------
***************************************************************************
VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
(VCDL). VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization
dedicated to defending the human rights of all Virginians. The Right to
Keep and Bear Arms is a fundamental human right.

VCDL web page: http://www.vcdl.org
Click to expand...
Sounds like NYC/MA/NJ laws being applied in Virginia now? Is there not a minimal knowledge of the law required of these lawmen? Make me scared to drive while legally armed!
 
I have a question that hasn't been asked, but let me preface. I own a Glock 20 10MM Auto. I carry this weapon daily - open. Sometimes I carry concealed, but not intentionally, my Jacket is just big. I do *not* have any kind of license or permit to do so (well, I do, 2nd Amendment, but I digress), and have no supporting paperwork to hand over to the officer. I routinely carry my Glock loaded with one in the chamber. If I get stopped, how do I handle this?
Click to expand...
I've not been able to locate any VT law that says you must notify, and IF there is none (you should be sure) then you should do so or not as you think is most appropriate.

My Second question is, how does the reciprocation work? I don't have a permit, but my state does not offer one. Does my driver's license function as my permit?
Click to expand...
For what it's worth, you answered your question already. AK will issue a permit, even though none is needed there, simply so that their residents can legally carry in states which recognize an AK permit. A Vermonter doesn't have that "luxury." I'd recommend getting a UT, FL, or PA non-resident permit -- whichever gives you the most reciprocity with states you are most likely to travel in. Unfotunately, the only way to carry in ME is on a ME non-resident permit. Same with MA -- if you ever have any reason to go there... NH won't be a hassle, but is a little weird.

From handgunlaw.us:
Vermont Residents are the only people who can get a NH permit without another permit to carry from any state but they must supply a letter from their Local Sheriff or Police Dept stating they are of good character.
Click to expand...

SO, living in VT, you're kind of screwed. If you want to go ANYWHERE close by, you'll need to get a permit from that state. That's a pain.

Hopefully I get a few of you riled up with the first paragraph (in a good way!), and realize there is hope
Click to expand...
Unfotunately, VT has is SO good that they've kind of screwed themselves. :rolleyes:
 
i agree vcdl is rock solid did they see tape? they aren't shy at all.
Click to expand...
I believe that Phil van Cleve actually talked to people in the Fairfax PD who confirmed the basics of the incident. If I'm not mistaken, it's all on OCDO in the Virginia forum.
 
Sounds like NYC/MA/NJ laws being applied in Virginia now? Is there not a minimal knowledge of the law required of these lawmen? Make me scared to drive while legally armed!
Click to expand...
I have perceived in a certain segment of law enforcement, the following traits:

1. A perception that they don't need to know the law. Not fine technical points of law, but basic fundamental elements of laws and sometimes whether those laws even exist. In the case being discussed, NONE of the things for which the victim was arrested are crimes in the Commonwealth of Virginia. EVERY one of those offenses was made up out of whole cloth by the perpetrators. This makes the victim's decision not to pursue litigation even more unfortunate because the public deserves to know on what basis that arrest was made. Were the perpetrators trained by their department to believe those things? Did they make them up maliciously? Did they see them on "Law & Order"? We'll never know now.

2. A perception that an innocent citizen who is wrongfully denied his liberty, either by a wrongful detention or a false arrest has suffered no harm and that they should not be accountable in any way.

These sorts of incidents have caused many of us to know applicable law better than most cops, to ALWAYS carry a voice recorder where lawful, and to adhere strictly to the letter of the law. I don't do "courtesies" or try to put cops "at their ease". I obey the letter of the law, nothing more, nothing less and make no apologies for it. The risks of me being "cooperative" are FAR too great to waste time on anything other than obeying the law as written.

And let me throw out an even WORSE incident which happened in Ohio recently. A man was subject to a felony stop by Beachwood police. During the stop, he was ORDERED TO REMAIN SILENT. After ***51*** seconds, he was finally able to notify the LEOs that he had an Ohio CHL and was armed. He was FALSELY arrested for "failure to promptly notify", indicted and tried. He was acquitted at trial during which recordings of the encounter were shown to the jury, so there's no question. The criminal justice system itself has determined that he did no wrong.

It's because of things like this that many of us are on our guard in any police encounter.
 
I carry a knife and a multi-tool on my left hip, same side as my wallet. I carry my handgun on the right hip. This being VT, the gun is generally in some ambiguous state of concealment. I don't think about that much. It's VT, after all.

When pulled over, I keep my hands on the steering wheel, until prompted to act by the LEO. When asked for driver's license, I say "Officer, for your safety and mine, I want to let you know that I have a knife and multi-tool on my left hip, next to my wallet. How would you like me to proceed?"

I follow the officer's instructions, slowly and carefully. If the officer asks if I have any other weapons in the vehicle, I respond truthfully, and follow his/her instructions.

I am polite. I speak clearly. I use short, declarative sentences and only answer questions that have been asked. I do nothing to complicate the officer's assertion of command posture.

Or at least that's how I conducted myself the one time I've ever been pulled over, for a broken headlight for which I was on the way to the auto parts store to get a replacement. The officer wrote me a slip of paper, in case I was pulled over by another officer on the way to the store, to inform the next officer that notification of the defective headlight had already been given, and sent me on my way, pleasantly and with a smile.

The officer kept her hand on her holstered sidearm at all times it (the hand) wasn't otherwise occupied with looking at papers, etc. My hands stayed on the steering wheel, except when retrieving papers. I used one hand to reach and kept the other on the steering wheel. The knife, multi-tool and handgun all stayed put in their sheaths and holsters.

The only unusual aspect of the stop was that the officer asked if I was active duty in any service branch. I assumed this was for get out of jail free purposes, but I could be wrong.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

T
  • Locked
Traffic Stop WHY Is It Safer To Inform
2 3 4 5 6
Replies
128
Views
6K
wyocarp
W
L
  • Locked
Traffic stop/you're CCW-legal & cop wants your gun ....
2 3
Replies
74
Views
3K
Matt G
M
T
  • Locked
No such thing as a routine traffic stop. 1 perpetrator and 1 cop dead.
Replies
8
Views
1K
TheeBadOne
T
Q
  • Locked
You Get Pulled Over - Cop Asks For Gun - Unload?
2
Replies
36
Views
3K
alan
A
I
  • Locked
What To Do If You Get Pulled Over
2
Replies
36
Views
2K
Robert
Robert
Back
Top