Eureka! And a few questions

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Epicurean

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I’ve been reloading for a few months and have managed to shorten my learning curve by regularly consulting this forum. I think I’m finally getting the hang of things. Heretofore I’ve only been able to achieve standard deviations in the upper teens and lower twenties for anything I loaded (38 SPL, 9mm and 45 ACP) and accuracy was OK but not great. Things changed this week.

I received my second batch of bullets from MBC earlier this week and committed myself to putting together some quality loads. I love my 1911s, so I decided to tweak .45 ACP. I loaded 25 rounds each of MBC’s Bullseye #1 (200 grain SWC) with 3.9, 4.1, 4.4 and 5.0 grains of Bullseye seated at 1.244 using CCI primers in mixed brass. I shot a 10 round string of each though my chrono and then 15 rounds of each for accuracy from a rest at 15 yards. Here’s what I got:

3.9 grains – second most accurate (one large ragged hole with two close flyers) – no failures - average 724 fps, ES 38, SD 11

4.1 grains – most accurate (one ragged hole with one very close flyer) – one failure to feed – average 750 fps, ES 24, SD 6

4.4 grains – least accurate (5” group) – two failures to feed – average 790 fps, ES 16, SD 5

5.0 grains – slightly more accurate than 4.4 grains – two failures to feed – average 845 fps, ES 39, SD 15

What I did differently than previous loads was I weighed the bullets. (A very time consuming process!) I found the average of 25 bullets to be 203.5 grains and loaded only those within 1.0 grains of that. Here’s the problem: it took 121 bullets to get 100 rounds! Twelve were too heavy (up to 206.6 grains) and nine were too light (down to 200.2).

So here’re my questions:
1) I think resting an eight round mag (I usually just rest my wrists) on a sandbag might have caused the FTFs. Is this possible or should I chase something else?
2) What do I do with the off-weight bullets? I don’t cast (yet) so are they just junk if I want to shoot consistent ammo?

Thanks for all you guys have done to teach me! I use “search” all the time so you have taught me a lot without knowing it.
 
Do the test.. Shoot 20 rounds of "select" bullets with a powder charge that give a low SD, then shoot 20 rounds of mixed weight bullets with a powder charge that give a low SD. Then compare the accuracy of the two groups. I think you will find very little difference in group size.

Now if you were shooting a match grade rifle at 100 yds. or more, you may see some difference.

Jimmy K
 
I agree.

Unless you are one heck of a pistol shot, and you may very well be, the higher ES & SD rounds wil shoot better than most of us can hold anyway.

Low ES & SD numbers are great, but some very accurate loads have poor numbers.

ES can make a big difference at long range, and since I like to shoot pistols at 100 yards and beyond, I like small ES numbers when I can get them as well.

I also test powders in cases where there is a lot of extra space to get "powder back" and "powder forward" numbers as well. That can be eye opening.
 
Hmmm….. Very Interesting. I did notice that the lowest SD was the least accurate. So what relevance do ES and SD have in the pursuit of accuracy? Is it coincidental that when I controlled bullet weight not only did the SD shrink but accuracy improved considerably?

I’m toying with the idea of shooting Bullseye and have been doing a lot of reading. That’s where I heard about holding bullet weight below +/- 1 grain along with other very interesting information and recommendations. Granted, right now my gun and ammo are more accurate than I am, but at 50 yards one-handed, you need all the help you can get. If holding bullet weight, charge weight, case weight, narrow ES, small SD, etc. don’t affect accuracy that much, then why do the High Masters fixate on these?

I think I’ll take Jim’s advise and load up 50 rounds of 4.1 grain with +/- 1.0 grain bullets and 50 with random weights then accuracy test only. I’ll report back.

Any ideas about the FTF issue?
 
I think the recoil bounce upset the natural movement of the round in the gun and caused the bullet end to bounce up too high and catch somewhere on the slide. Kinda like limp wristing causes FTF.....I may be wrong too!

Jimmy K
 
So what relevance do ES and SD have in the pursuit of accuracy?
Not much some times.
Is it coincidental that when I controlled bullet weight not only did the SD shrink but accuracy improved considerably?
Possibly.

Lots of very accurate loads out there with poor numbers. Weighing and sorting the bullets improved accuracy and ES & SD numbers. The ES & SD numbers did not improve the accuracy, nor guarantee it.
 
Hi Epicurean,



Just to try and join in here since I am learning also...


What kind of Bullets have these been? Lead? Lead Alloy? RNL, Semi-Wad? Jacketed? Hardball?


Are they uniform in their diameter?


Their diameter in relation to your Pistol's Bore?


These details can matter.


Mixed Headstamp Cases and Primer aperature shape and diameter can end up somewhat, if there is disparity in case Volumes or in the effeciency of a given Primer's spark through varying size or shape Holes, there can be slight disparity in fps and trajectory, but this is not likely to be an issue unless one is indeed at the extremes of finesse for fine accuracy over distance.


FTFs...could be any of several things...
 
Weighing and sorting the bullets improved accuracy and ES & SD numbers. The ES & SD numbers did not improve the accuracy, nor guarantee it.

Understood! I am in pursuit of accuracy not numbers and I now understand that numbers don't drive accuracy. So are you saying that sorting bullets will improve accuracy and the numbers just fall where they may?
 
Well...even though I am new to this, my own understanding would be that Sorting Bullets ( for weight and diameter) is one of several variables for defining accuracy.

Bullet diameter, according to type, should be suited to the actual measured Bore of the Arm in question.


Bullet Alloy also, can matter, if Cast Bullets are used.


Consistency in all variables becomes important...consistency in Bullets weight and diameter and composition ( once determined and elected to be suited to the Bore in question)... particulars of consistent ( ideally, same Headstamp, same more or less run or time period of that mfg's Cases, for ) uniform Case volume and uniform Primer aperature/shape...uniformity of Powder charge...consistent Primer type/Brand...Bullet Lube...maintenance of the Pistol far as it's running smooth and well lubed, everything matters.
 
As a relative noobee 1 1/2 years reloading, I thought I'd give my .02
I love the technical side of reloading but have found it's easy for me to get too involved in it and try to achieve perfection with technology when the basics are to blame.
To the point, and yes, I'm maybe not the best example. I've found many times that: 1. The most accurate load this test session will be the least accurate the next time. 2. For whatever reason (I believe eyesight) I shoot better (always) standing and freehand than I do from sand bags or rest.
Therefore I don't condemn or choose the perfect load based on one range session. There are just too many factors that play into my shooting ability on any day to make decisions on a single session. This possibly would be different if I was shooting optics instead of open sights.
Lastly, if I was able to choose the best load with one test session it would absolutely ruin many nights of reloading fun and days of range testing.
Have fun, shoot often and best of luck!
 
So are you saying that sorting bullets will improve accuracy and the numbers just fall where they may?
Pretty much.

Bullets are a huge factor in accuracy. The more uniform the better. A good barrel properly fitted etc, and good bullets that your barrel likes, will do more for accuracy than all the other prepping and fussing we can do. Next, IMHO, is the powder selection. Then comes all the other little things that may make minimal gains.

I never checked numbers on my Benchrest loads, and they would shoot little tiny bug holes if I let them.

Same with pistol loads. How many old Bullseye shooters had chronos back when? They were shooting little bug holes with no real concern at all for the numbers. On target results were all that mattered.
 
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