Howdah Pistols
- Thread starter BenB8290
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madcratebuilder
Member
There's been a few Howdah threads in the past.
andrewstorm
member
howda mr tiger
can you belive these pistols stoped a tiger? id need one for each hand
can you belive these pistols stoped a tiger? id need one for each hand
M2 Carbine
member
Tomahawk674
Member
They are beatiful and I imagine they are a lot of fun to shoot, but there's no way I can spend $600 right now for a single gun...
I haven't seen many used ones pop up on Gunbroker either.
I haven't seen many used ones pop up on Gunbroker either.
higene
Member
Pancho
Member
I noticed two types of ram rods wood and metal. Which is the latest model?
Pancho
Member
I was just stumbling around on Cabela's site and answered my own question about the ram rods. That ramrod swivel/toggle is a slick innovation. You wouldn't want to lose your ramrod from the back of an elephant.
The BP ones were never used from a howdah. The true howdah pistols were cut down double rifles in Nitro Express calibers, though some manufacturers later started making them already short.
Calling the 20 gauge ones "luparas" would really be a lot more accurate, but that's probably not very politically correct in Italy.
Anyway, here's my two Italian guns (with really crappy lighting).
Calling the 20 gauge ones "luparas" would really be a lot more accurate, but that's probably not very politically correct in Italy.
Anyway, here's my two Italian guns (with really crappy lighting).
Attachments
That first picture really brings home how thick that barrel is. Never having handled one, but having handled smokeless "howdah pistols" (short barreled shotguns, such as those that I own), I didn't think it was quite that thick.
Intentional for two reasons, I suppose. One, so they can use less expensive steel (it IS a blackpowder arm, after all) and two, for weight (it IS a relatively stout bore on a pistol, after all)
Intentional for two reasons, I suppose. One, so they can use less expensive steel (it IS a blackpowder arm, after all) and two, for weight (it IS a relatively stout bore on a pistol, after all)
arcticap
Member
Pancho said:
Pancho, the newer and latest model has the hinged metal ramrod.
I posted a poll a while back asking which ramrod type that folks liked better.
Pedersoli Changed the Howdah Design - Do you like it?
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=493581
Pancho
Member
Yeah, I get it now. Stumbled on it at the Cabela's website. I'll check your thread to see further comments. Thanks
Cap n Ball
Member
wittzo
Member
Someone discovered that you could drop a ball down in the ramrod channel and jam up the works and they said that's why Pedersoli changed the design to a captive ramrod. I think it was because of recoil knocking the ramrod loose during firing.
Lots of big pistols have captive ramrods. I can think of another way to lose the ramrod while on a horseback. Every time the hoof hit the ground, it would be like tapping the rear with a small hammer with every pace until it worked loose and got lost.
Mine from MVTC
Pete from MVTC sent me pics of some really old percussion Howdah pistols that he picked up in India from the 1840's and 1850's. If blackpowder howdah's weren't being used, how do they exist? They might have been planted to test our faith in the Holy Black.
"Here are a few pics of a repro Howdah alongside of an original. The original
is .60 cal. Buttcap is some kind of horn. The wood is something reddish and
fancy, with stripes (not sure what, not familiar enough with tropical
woods). Notice the sling swivel on the front thimble and the lanyard ring on
the buttcap.
There are also two pics showing the original double Howdah next to the
elephant gun. It has a rifled bore of .75 caliber!!! I'm of the opinion that
it's barrel was recycled from an earlier life, as it barrel is fairly fancy,
with a platinum band inlaid near the breech. The current stock/barrel setup
is quite plain and utilitarian.
There are also a few pics of single barreled Howdah pistols that came from
the same place. They have Indian Dept. of Antiquities numbers painted on the
butt with whiteout, as well as a paper tag. I left this stuff on because it
helps me refer to them as "number 260" and "number 262". Each antique gun
that is exported from what is now India has to be run through the Dept. of
Antiquities to be declared as not being a "cultural treasure". Each one gets
a case number, is photographed, and a file is maintained on it. In my
opinion, it is just another layer of typically Indian beaurocracy that
exists for yet another opportunity for desk jockeys to seek payoffs.
Interestingly, I got a box of swords at around the same time. The guy
polished up the blades and scabbards and exported them as "reproductions".
There are literally castles full of cool old weaponry available over there,
all of it is "for export only" because the government does not want even
antique weapons falling into the hands of the people. Somehow, they still
manage to kill each other...
Anyway, pistol #260 has an old blunderbuss barrel recycled into a pistol
barrel. I kept it because I thought it was funky. It has an Enfield style
lock, but it is not so the Enfield pattern.
Pistol #262 is a neat one. It has been restocked and percussioned, but
started life as a 1790 dated East India Co. marked flintlock pistol, clearly
marked Wilson on the lockplate. It's got a hooked breech."
Lots of big pistols have captive ramrods. I can think of another way to lose the ramrod while on a horseback. Every time the hoof hit the ground, it would be like tapping the rear with a small hammer with every pace until it worked loose and got lost.
Mine from MVTC
Pete from MVTC sent me pics of some really old percussion Howdah pistols that he picked up in India from the 1840's and 1850's. If blackpowder howdah's weren't being used, how do they exist? They might have been planted to test our faith in the Holy Black.
"Here are a few pics of a repro Howdah alongside of an original. The original
is .60 cal. Buttcap is some kind of horn. The wood is something reddish and
fancy, with stripes (not sure what, not familiar enough with tropical
woods). Notice the sling swivel on the front thimble and the lanyard ring on
the buttcap.
There are also two pics showing the original double Howdah next to the
elephant gun. It has a rifled bore of .75 caliber!!! I'm of the opinion that
it's barrel was recycled from an earlier life, as it barrel is fairly fancy,
with a platinum band inlaid near the breech. The current stock/barrel setup
is quite plain and utilitarian.
There are also a few pics of single barreled Howdah pistols that came from
the same place. They have Indian Dept. of Antiquities numbers painted on the
butt with whiteout, as well as a paper tag. I left this stuff on because it
helps me refer to them as "number 260" and "number 262". Each antique gun
that is exported from what is now India has to be run through the Dept. of
Antiquities to be declared as not being a "cultural treasure". Each one gets
a case number, is photographed, and a file is maintained on it. In my
opinion, it is just another layer of typically Indian beaurocracy that
exists for yet another opportunity for desk jockeys to seek payoffs.
Interestingly, I got a box of swords at around the same time. The guy
polished up the blades and scabbards and exported them as "reproductions".
There are literally castles full of cool old weaponry available over there,
all of it is "for export only" because the government does not want even
antique weapons falling into the hands of the people. Somehow, they still
manage to kill each other...
Anyway, pistol #260 has an old blunderbuss barrel recycled into a pistol
barrel. I kept it because I thought it was funky. It has an Enfield style
lock, but it is not so the Enfield pattern.
Pistol #262 is a neat one. It has been restocked and percussioned, but
started life as a 1790 dated East India Co. marked flintlock pistol, clearly
marked Wilson on the lockplate. It's got a hooked breech."
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armoredman
Member
Nifty, thanks! I wouldn't mind having a howdah style pistol for the nifty factor.
.44 magnum!
Which costs a bare minimum of $0.60 per shot, and brass is over $0.20 each... -----------
Interesting, all the references to credible howdah pistols I've ever seen were cut down Nitro Express models. Any definite reports of the double-barreled BP guns being used from elephantback against tigers? Considering that modern 12 gauge shotgun slugs are known to fail to stop leopards (which weigh only 100-120 pounds), I would not want to use a 20 gauge black powder gun on a tiger!
I'd sorta suspect they may have been used for shooting lighter-skinned targets of opportunity, rather than defense from big cats.
Cosmoline
Member
Great pics Wittzo!
From what I've seen of the Howdahs, they must be made with the same tools used for the Kodiak double rifles. They seem to be built to the same specs. I believe that's also why the barrels are so thick. Oddly, though, their recommended powder charges are very different for the two.
From what I've seen of the Howdahs, they must be made with the same tools used for the Kodiak double rifles. They seem to be built to the same specs. I believe that's also why the barrels are so thick. Oddly, though, their recommended powder charges are very different for the two.
DutchmanDick
Member
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2006
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- 179
I have a book about classic firearms, by Stoeger Publications. One of the chapters featured a breechloading howdah by Rodda of Calcutta and London, chambered in the .577 Snider rifle round. Taylor knockdown index placed it at just slightly under a .44 magnum.
Also, Firearms of the American West:1803-1865 by Garavaglia (p. 96) shows a .64 caliber, smoothbore, o/u caplock pistol with 5" barrels, made by Maynard of London. Besides the physical description, the caption reads, "Such a pistol might have been used by a visiting Englishman for hunting buffalo from horseback". So there IS an historic precedent for such guns being used on large, dangerous game at close range.
I stopped a charging tiger, err, umm, 55 gallon oil drum with my Pedersoli Howdah. It stopped charging after the first shot, but I shot it about 15 more times, just to be sure.
That Howdah pistol is about the most fun you can have without getting N-E-Double K-By God-I-D.
That Howdah pistol is about the most fun you can have without getting N-E-Double K-By God-I-D.
Noz
Member
The favorite leopard round was #4 (0000) buckshot. Stopped them cold. Much more effective at close range than a slug
Lee Jurras made sore very impressive "modern" howda pistols.
Lee Jurras made sore very impressive "modern" howda pistols.
PRM
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- Joined
- Apr 14, 2008
- Messages
- 2,113
Seen the post on balls going down the ram rod channel ~ Not sure if that was what caused the change to the attached rod or not. I just put my shot and PRB down the the barrel.
As far as the rod coming out during firing, ~ hadn't experienced that either.
I can see where there could be situations where it is more desirable to have one attached ~ but I like my wood rod. The end is threaded for a cleaning jag, which for me, holds the patch better for cleaning out the residue between shots.
Either way is fine and would not be a deal breaker for me.
As far as the rod coming out during firing, ~ hadn't experienced that either.
I can see where there could be situations where it is more desirable to have one attached ~ but I like my wood rod. The end is threaded for a cleaning jag, which for me, holds the patch better for cleaning out the residue between shots.
Either way is fine and would not be a deal breaker for me.
Magwa45
Member
Those Howdahs look like fun, but are they of any practical use?
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