When the Police Arrive....

Yes, "drop the gun" is literal and it means "right now", and you may not be quick enough. "Get on the ground" also means "right now" and you may end up with some chronic pain issues afterwards in addition to a bruised ego.

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As an experienced officer, I would disagree with that. Any sudden movements are likely to cause a stronger reaction by the police than a slow, deliberate, compliant one. Slowly put the weapon down. If you are told to get down, do it slowly and deliberately.

I would yell things like, "I'm the homerowner and this guy broke in." "This guy tried to rob me." "This guy theatened to kill me and pulled a knife." Basically, I would explain what he did to provoke me to draw a gun. I would also inform them that I have a concealed carry permit. Not too many bad guys have those.

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When they first arrive on scene, they aren't listening and they don't care anyway. They will eventually care what you have to say but keep your mouth shut during their arrival. I promise you, things will go much smoother. The officer(s) will be giving commands immediately and your attempt to yell/explain over them is futile and reckless.

Follow my advice in #25.

I might be tempted to drop the magazine and lock the slide back, but that depends on the level of intensity shown by the officers.

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Please resist that temptation.

Dropping the magazine is a sudden movement and creates a loud noise when it hits the ground. Neither is likely to end with a positive response. Locking the slide back implies that you are putting two hands on the weapon in front of the officer. Bad idea. If you were to do so while I had you at gunpoint you may not live to regret it. Just being blunt. And if you, or anyone, has a question about the level of intensity of a "man with a gun" call and response by the officer, let me assure you that is intense indeed. That is why I preach, "Shut up and minimal movements while complying at a very slow pace."

Finally, first hand information from the right source! Thank you sir.

Thanks for all the good info JSCOTT......

Perhaps the procedure varies by department.

Not too long ago, an officer responding to a "man with a gun" call in a Colorado municipality shot a citizen six times without having told the homeowner to drop his gun. After having been on administrative leave for about a year, the officer was cleared, on the basis that he had followed police procedure correctly.

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I would never purport to say that my technique will work 100% of the time. I'm simply trying to provide input for what should work the majority of the time. This scenario is not without danger regardless of the actions that you take.

True, training varies by department and emotional responses vary by officer. It is impossible to account for all scenarios so the best you can do is minimize the likelihood of being shot and/or mistaken for a criminal party considering the greatest number of variables.

The decision to carry a firearm brings with it a certain responsibility, not without a level of danger, that must be considered by the person who chooses to go about armed. Common sense must prevail, tempered with an ounce of forethought on how to respond should this particular situation arise.

As for dropping the weapon instantly, let me clarify. Do not move so slowly as to lead the officer to believe that you are simply ignoring commands. Your movements should be evident enough to show compliance. I will however stand by the idea that it is better to make a slow, deliberate, compliant movement, coupled with the aforementioned non-verbal ques of innocence (open hands, compliant posture) than any quick movements, whether it be dropping, tossing, throwing, etc.

A small plug....I have an entire chapter of my upcoming book devoted to topics such as Interacting With a Suspect at Gunpoint, Approaching a Downed Subject, the choice of Restraining or Moving a Suspect, Multiple Suspects, Arrival and Interaction with the Police. It covers much more than can be written in a few paragraphs here.

Kleanbore said:

Makes sense if it's not too slow.

Local officers I know, including instructors, tell me that in their video training, if the gun does not drop immediately, the correct action is to shoot--instantly and repeatedly, or the trainee fails.

That makes sense, also. The man with the gun could shoot almost instantly.

Perhaps the procedure varies by department.

Not too long ago, an officer responding to a "man with a gun" call in a Colorado municipality shot a citizen six times without having told the homeowner to drop his gun. After having been on administrative leave for about a year, the officer was cleared, on the basis that he had followed police procedure correctly.

Best of luck. You have a dangerous job, not appreciated by everyone.

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This. I've worked reserve, have worked corrections, and train with LEOs (and in some cases train them). My guns are drop safe.

If you screw up and point a gun at the officer while you are gently setting it down, you are likely going to get shot.

I don't trust that I'm going to have an experienced officer responding; I assume the newest guy on the shift is going to be the one there, and that he isn't a gun guy.

Procedures vary. Out here, every instructor will say "drop it". All depends on personal experiences, I guess...

-Mark

^^^ Well said and great advice, thank you jscott.
this should be a sticky

I'm no expert in this by any stretch of the means, but here's my two cents...

If you're going to yell anything to the responders, I wouldn't go with anything more complex than "HELP!"

While complying with their commands.

When the popo rolls up, before they get out of the cruiser(s), reholster and raise your hands. If you can't reholster before they get out of the car, drop the gun. That simple. Don't make it harder than it has to be. Don't try to explain who you are, or why you're holding the gun on the thug. They aren't going to listen or care for the moment, at least until the situation is under control.

Don't get stupid and try anything cute like locking the slide back or anything like that. The cops will be very keyed up, and they'll possibly be yelling conflicting commands. Get the gun out of your hand ASAP and keep your hands held high and try to comply with their orders, and hopefully you won't get shot.

Twice I've been in this situation. The first in 1992 in LA Rodney King Riots, While holding a burgler at gunpoint outside gunstore, the LEO's was just driving by (4 to a car) not responding to a call. As soon as they saw me and I saw them I placed my Browning High Power on roof of a car. The LEO's took several minutes sorting out situation but they were very twitchy till they did and I'm glad I put that weapon down.
They second time was 4 day's ago and I was going to community center for morning swim at 0500 when timing belt broke on my car. The Officer who arrived knew me from around town and ask me if I was CCed, I told him yes and he ask me to just keep my hands in sight and away from my pockets and thats all that was said.

In the above post I forgot to say if they want me on the ground I'm going to have to just drop on side, Knee replacement prevents going to knee's. So I've worried about this for a while as common practice is put you on your knees and then prone with ankles cross till scene is secured.

NYC has over 17 city, state and Federal agencies who carry guns on duty and off and off duty/ plainclothes survival is taught to all.
( I work for the courts and spent many years moonlighting in private security where I had to get involved in several such incidents.)
I am also an armed security guard instructor and I teach the following:
Decide if getting involved is worth it.
Perhaps letting him go and getting a description would be better?
Anyhow, if you must....
Call 911 and tell them who you are and how you are dressed.
I suggest getting the bad guy either proned out or on is knees, ankles crossed, hands on top of his head with fingers interlocked and facing AWAY from you.
(Be sure to leave him an escape route--where he does not have to go through you--should he decide to make tracks.
In that case just allow him to make his escape--DO NOT CHASE HIM!!!!)
Now I suggest you either re-holster or place the weapon in your pocket so as not to have a weapon visable when the troops arrive.
What to do next depends on what they tell you to do.
Just do it while keeping your hands in plain sight and following commands with slow, deliberate movements.

In that case just allow him to make his escape--DO NOT CHASE HIM!!!!)

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The way I look at this is, yeah, I'd love to thump the thug on the head a few times for inconveniencing me, but I'm also lazy. Let the popo chase 'em and get the exercise...they are paid for it, after all.

If your told to drop your gun, probably want to kick the gun away from the BG or place it somewhere no one can reach it quickly. Wouldn't want to give the BG a gun.

I've been in a situation. I heard a BG inside my store. I called police and waited outside with my gun inside my pocket. 911 stayed on the line till the cops came. I had to describe myself. I left my gun inside my pocket to reduce confusion by police and witnesses. As the first cop came to the scene, I pointed to the store. I already recognized him from the previous 2 buglaries. So he knew I was the owner. Not a word was exchanged. He went to the back door and waited for back up. I told him that I had a gun in my pocket just in case situation X arose.

I recall a story a while back where a cop accidently shot the victim. So y'alls fears are justified.

Carry handcuffs, use them, put your pistol away, then call the cops.

Most seem to think that trying to cuff someone by yourself is a bad idea.

Back to dropping it, my instructors - some of which were LEOs, clearly demonstrated that while you were putting the gun down slowly you could quickly shoot it.

So the risk is whether you drop and they startle and shoot you - or you go slow and they see a risk and shoot you.

I'd bet on the drop being safer but there's no real data on that.

One of my gun books recounts a story of an undercover cop that shot two BG's. Uniformed cops arrived. He was wearing a hoodie and could not hear the uniforms giving him orders. He couldn't see the uniforms in periphal because of hoodie. When the undercover turned to look, he brought his gun on the cops. And the cops killed him. So, the fear is valid. He had auditory problems because of muzzle noise and stress.

Carry handcuffs, use them

No, don't.

It IS dangerous for an untrained person, alone, to try cuffing someone. Very dangerous.

And there are legal considerations as well- yes, here too. In NC for example there's no legal provision for a citizens arrest in the sense that many think of it. While your state may have such provisions in its code, you'd better be sure exactly what the law says (statute and case law) in your jurisdiction about such things before you go trying to detain someone. Otherwise you might well be creating legal jeopardy for yourself by doing so.

I know not one single professional trainer who suggests that his or her armed-citizen students carry cuffs and try to use them. Or a CCW badge for that matter. We are not LEOs, we do not have the same responsibilities, legal backup (someone else pays the lawyers for LEOs, you pay your own), or obligation to act that sworn LEOs do...

fwiw,

lpl

I'll drop it.

It's not made out glass.

If you screw up and point a gun at the officer while you are gently setting it down, you are likely going to get shot.

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And if for some reason it goes off, they'll shoot you.

Police have a tendency to shoot people when one of THEM has an accidental or negligent discharge.

I'm slowly putting it on the ground.

Deanimator said:

And if for some reason it goes off, they'll shoot you.

Police have a tendency to shoot people when one of THEM has an accidental or negligent discharge.

I'm slowly putting it on the ground.

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Do you have guns that go off without the trigger being pulled? I don't...

Folks can do what they want, but I'm dropping my XD with zero concern about it going bang.

Probably a good idea to have the BUSINESS END pointed to neutral as well when the Police arrive.

Good grief.

Doesn't anybody own a holster?

The question is what to do with the gun when the cops arrive.

Put it in your holster!

The fact that you HAVE a holster will negate 99% of any suspicion that you are the perp.

If you look like a bum or a thug, expect to be treated as such.