Warrior mindset?

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B yond

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Im of the opinion that mindset plays a much larger role in surviving violent confrontations than most people believe. I'm hoping you folks have some stories to share that back up this opinion.

I've read about people in third world countries who hadn't grown up watching movies and don't realize they're supposed to fall down and die after getting shot. These people are able to keep fighting where many others would fall down and go into shock.

I've heard of police officers fighting through horrendous injuries that many people would succumb to.

I've heard of small statured women finding unknown reserves of strength to save their children.

Can you guys share any first or second hand experiences about a warrior mindset or will to win enabling someone to do things that seem almost superhuman?
 
Unfortunately, yes. Though I haven't spoken to her in years now, I would still consider her a friend. Trooper Kelly Kalmbach and I went through the 87th trooper basic class together. I can relay her story as it is all over the internet. In fact, here's a link:

http://www.policeone.com/policeonetv/videos/1749911-will-to-win-kelly-kalmbach/

She had just stopped a vehicle at a 76 gas station, believing him to be a DUI. The driver actually admitted that he had a firearm on his person (and a concealed weapon permit). She separated him from his weapon and then conducted field sobriety tests. Like many officers, including myself at times, you wouldn't think that someone who is legally licensed and tells you up front that they have a weapon also has a plan to kill you.

The suspect struggled and made his way back to his weapon. She was shot five times but was able to return fire. The suspect fled but was later killed by other officers. He had shot 12 times. She fired 11 rounds, finding her mark with 3.

While she readily admits mistakes were made, she also kept her wits about her and even refused to put her weapon down (after the suspect had fled) until additional officers arrived.

Her words, "In my mind, I remember saying, 'You're going down. I'm not going down.... He is not going to get the better of me.'"

Go Kelly.
 
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I've heard of officers getting shot in the heart, head, multiple times, etc. and live. The reason? They were not going to die there.

I agree with your opinion, mindset is everything. If you get into a fight expecting to loose, you probably will (self-fulfilling prophesy ?) If you get into a fight with the attitude "I'm not going to die here or now" you will probably live to tell about it.

Mindset might not be everything, but it is one of THE most important aspects of surviving.
 
As important as warrior mindset is the will to not quit, Quitters never win and winners never quit. As a matter of fact maybe the warrior mindset IS the refusal to quit at anything.
 
You need to always tell yourself, if you can think and move, then you can keep injuring them until they are no longer a threat.

Training needs to be set up to reflect this philosophy. Training scenarios where you immediately stop and are "out" when hit reinforce failure and quitting. The role player of the bad guy should have certain instructions and carry them out. The trainee shouldn't quit no matter what. If they freeze, drop the gun and shake uncontrollably, then the trainer needs to pick the gun up, put it back in their hands and guide them through finishing the job no matter what. Then...run them through again, the next time will be a lot easier.
 
Read On Killing and On Combat by Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman. Lots of good info on mindset and training and how they affect physiological responses and decision making.
 
posted by B yond
Can you guys share any first or second hand experiences about a warrior mindset or will to win enabling someone to do things that seem almost superhuman?

not to nit-pick, but i think you are referring to the Survivor mindset...that one intends to fight through the situation and come out the other side.

another commonly confused mind set is the Macho mindset...one will not lose a confrontation, because you're just as good as the other person

the Warrior mindset as exemplified in the Code of Bushido is to accept death, losing the fear of it, to be able to do what it takes to win...that is what you see when mothers risk all to save their children, not worrying about the consequences on their actions give them unbelievable power
 
I agree with your opinion, mindset is everything. If you get into a fight expecting to loose, you probably will (self-fulfilling prophesy ?) If you get into a fight with the attitude "I'm not going to die here or now" you [strike]will probably live to tell about it[/strike] probably have improved your odds of survivng.

Mindset certainly isn't everything, but it is a very important factor. Along with skills/training, equipment, awareness, the ability to keep it together under immense stress, and so on.
 
"...Warrior mindset?..." Fictionally inspired nonsense of the highest order. Served with a guy, long ago, who walked off the Dieppe beach with 8 bullet holes in him(saw the scars), one of which was a compound leg fracture. He didn't know it until the MO on the ship asked him how he got off the beach. It had nothing whatever to do with a "Warrior mindset". Had to do with shock and fear. Johnny was 5 foot nothing and just a very well trained Canadian troopie doing what he was trained to do.
Mind you, if you think you're hurt worse than you are, your mind will cause you to fold.
"...the Macho mindset..." That's what makes guys get angry when their wives shoot better than they do.
 
An awful lot of the posts deal with Hero's not just warriors and the two are not necessarily the same. A Warrior mindset is a dedicated person who refuses to accept defeat while Hero's are often a victim of being in the right place at the wrong time and doing what is necessasry to survive or take as many enemy with him to justify his own death. Hmm maybe that is the same thing as warrior mindset. Most Hero's insist they didn't do anything extrodinary but just what anyone in the same situation whould have done. That's not true but just what they think.
 
never underestimate the will to survive. i saw a story about an 11 year old boy who was kidnapped and tortured by an older teen who repeatedly broke bones in the boys legs and feet, even turning the boys ankle around several times like a clock hand just to see what it was like.. the boy escaped the house and crawled several miles to the next house that had someone home. the doctors that treated the boy said that most people would have given up and died after the amount of trauma he had endured.
 
"...the Macho mindset..." That's what makes guys get angry when their wives shoot better than they do.
Why do you equate what the OP terms "warrior mindset" with this false macho BS? No one has discussed that here...ego driven false bravado. Not that it matters since that ego driven attitude doesn't survive true life or death fear anyway.
 
I hate to be the one to break up this party, but plenty of winners with a "warrior" mindset have gotten their heads blown off. Many winners have died badly and many losers have come out alive. Mindset certainly helps, but the guy who will hide behind the biggest piece of cover has a much better chance of seeing tomorrow than the one who Boldly Goes into the fangs of battle.

Refusing to accept defeat, however noble, will often get you killed. And no you cannot rely on being able to survive multiple shots to the heart and head with willpower. That's just insane.

Certainly for non-military confrontations, being a coward has much to recommend it. I don't mean always running away (though that's often the best option), I mean manipulating the situation to maximize your chance of killing the enemy while minimizing your own chance of being shot or even seen. The classic scenario is an armed gunman with his back to you. Do you call out to him like a hero and have a Gary Cooper moment before you die, or do you take careful aim from behind cover and blow the top of his head off?
 
Mindset is pretty much just another words for the tapes that run in your head when there is too much going on for a person to really think about what to do.

What tapes run or will run in your head when the chips are down? How did those tapes get there? There's an oft-repeated quote from historian/author Barrett Tillman, regarding naval aviators: "You won't rise to the occasion--you'll default to your level of training." And it's true, more often than not.

There are good reasons we emphasize individual training (with an instructor- not just practice) so much here...

lpl
===========================
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/survivalmindset.htm

If you've never seen an elephant
it's easy to imagine yourself
swinging it around by the tail.
Oliver Bingham

Having What It Takes To Survive

On this page:
How Fast You Went There | How Fast You Recognize What's Happening | How Prepared You Are

In another section we likened high risk behavior to walking on ice. While it is something that you can do, you can't do it like you do normally. At least not safely. That analogy about walking on ice vs. how you normally walk conveys some very important ideas about what it is going to take for you to survive a dangerous situation.

That's because attempting to apply how you normally function to a dangerous situation is perhaps the greatest obstacle to one's safety.

It is however:
A) One of the most common ways people get into trouble
B) An underlying assumption of a great deal of martial arts/Self-Defense
training
C) A big reason why seemingly big, strong and confident people freeze (or
backpedal) when serious violence occurs(1)

Putting it mildly, it doesn't matter how you do things normally. When thing get ugly, if you want to be the one who walks through your door that night, you must adapt your behavior to those new circumstances. Because the circumstances aren't going to adapt to what you want them to be.

Being uncomfortably honest, a lot of your ability to save yourself is based on three factors.
One is how fast you dove into a situation that was high risk. Two is how fast you recognize what is actually going on. Three is how prepared you are to do what must be done.

How Fast You Put Yourself There
How hard, fast and willfully you put yourself into a dangerous situation has a lot to do with what is going to happen. Face it, if you walk into a biker bar alone and scream that you're going to kick their collective asses, there really isn't to much hope for you.

While that is an extreme example, a great number of people get a very big thrill out of associating with dangerous people. Dangerous people are dangerous for a reason(1). It's all fun and games until that 'danger' is pointed at them. Unfortunately, by the time this happens they're in way over their heads.

If you've gone out of your way to put yourself in and among dangerous people (for whatever reason) and you are still relying on the social conventions that normally protect you to keep you safe, you're out of your league. The problem is that most people do not understand the nature of social prohibitions

But another way that you can dive headfirst into danger is not having control over your emotions with the wrong person. While there are always consequences of letting one's emotions run things, some consequences are worse than others. There are certain people that you cannot act a certain way around. If you insist on your right to do so they will hand you an attitude adjustment right then and there. If you're lucky, it will just be a beating. You may be able to behave that way where you are from, but where he is from that behavior doesn't fly.

How Fast You Recognize What Is Going On
This is probably the most important attribute that you can have. It's called 'situational awareness' and it's a whole lot rarer commodity than people think it is. The average office worker can see a couple of unsavory types loitering in a parking lot and make a whim decision -- instead of turning back -- to continue to his or her car. This decision is made based on the assumption of "they'll leave me alone" when in fact, those aren't just lowlifes, those are muggers in a strategic position waiting to attack someone.

To that person, it will just look like the gun in his/her face just came out of nowhere. When in fact, an extremely dangerous situation already existed and he/she willfully walked into it rather than being inconvenienced. We say willfully rather than unwittingly, because while that person didn't recognize the signals the robbers were broadcasting by their actions. The 'victim' saw them in that strategic location. What's more, a part of him/her did know something wasn't kosher. But that person didn't want to invest the time and effort into either going back or investigating what was wrong with the situation. This is why we say it was a willful decision. The decision to proceed was based on that person's convenience -- not because the person didn't know something was wrong. The fact that the decision had unintended consequences, does not mean it wasn't an intentional decision.

On the other hand, a person who knows such danger signals will walk into that same parking lot, recognize the situation for what it is and reshuffle his/her priorities accordingly (hopefully walking back where they came from and calling the police). The recognition of the situation will usually prevent it from happening.

Being Prepared
The third element is often very hard to define -- especially to those who don't have it. that is how prepared are you to do what must be done. This is a two pronged problem:
A) Does the person have the willingness to act?
B) Does the person have the resources to carry out that decision?

In our Women's Self-Defense courses, we ask the participants a question: Are you willing to commit physical violence in self-defense, yes or no? Even with it phrased in those black and white terms, there is usually a great deal of waffling, hesitation, discomfort and "Well, it depends"

We'll be the first to agree that there are all kinds of qualifiers about when one should and shouldn't use force. And we're also extremely big on the fact that violence comes in many different levels. But, we're not talking about fighting or overt aggression. The question itself assumes that it is a self-defense, therefore violence is being offered to you. You have a choice, defend yourself or get hurt.

That is how the entrenched the idea that 'violence is bad' is in western culture. Even when only intellectually faced with this choice, people still hesitate. There isn't some big nasty hairy guy coming at you, this is a question asked in the safety and security of the class room. And yet discomfort and uncertainty cause people to vacillate while desperately trying to find an alternative solution.

Well, now for the not-so-nice news. When a situation has gone beyond the norm and it is time to apply force, you cannot hesitate.

Upon hearing this concept, many people misunderstand. They tend to think of a lack of hesitation in terms of cold-bloodedness or anger. While that may be the motivation for the attack, that's not what we are talking about. Putting the lack of hesitation in defensive terms:

You must have the 'willingness' to act in the time frame that you have.

Again, this is a multi-pronged issue:
A) You only have so much time to enact an effective response. This doesn't just mean the time it takes to do it. It also includes
the time it will take for a response to take effect. Even lethal
force takes time to manifest. You too can be killed in the "Dead
Man's Ten"(2). There is a time lag between between what you
do and the attack stopping. Hesitation robs you of time you
cannot afford to lose. B) The reason that it is time to apply force is the immediate danger
posed by the circumstances has removed all other options.
This is what is so overwhelming to most civilized people. We
normally lead lives that avoid such extremes. As such, when
faced with a problem we are accustomed to having the time and
ability to research, consider and select viable alternatives. We're
not accustomed to functioning in such black and white terms.
Nor are we accustomed to acting on such grave matters in so
little time -- and with, apparently, so little consideration. But
being attacked leaves you no other options but to be hurt or
stop that danger by similar means. C) While it is difficult to explain the emotional tidal wave of facing an
physical attack, if you do not override your brain's adrenal function
in a crisis by this act of "will' -- odds are -- you will freeze.
Your will tells your body what to do. Without your will's direction,
your body will not move -- not even to escape. Like a woman
about to get killed in a bad 1960s horror movie, you will stand
there frozen as danger approaches (Yes, the one that everyone
in the room yells at the TV for her to run). In truth though, the
confusion, disbelief and uncertainty of being unexpectedly
attacked cannot be overstated. People do freeze like deer in
headlights when attacked. It happens all the time. While the
intellectual predetermination to act defensively can help, you
still have to force your body to act in time. And that is where
'will' comes in, it lessens the freeze time.

While the decision to use force or not is a personal one. It must be made before you ever find yourself in a situation where you must act on that decision. And our advice to you is if you choose not to, then do yourself a favor and avoid lifestyles and situations where violence is on the list of options.

If, on the other hand,you decide 'yes, you do have the willingness,' then there comes the issue of having the ability to enact your will.

Realize a man in a wheelchair who has both the willingness to shoot and a loaded gun, is more dangerous than a healthy man with a gun, but who lacks the will. That armed man in a wheelchair is also more dangerous to a healthy man who means him harm than the other way around. The ability without the will, is just as ineffective as the will without the ability.

And that takes us into the realm of self-defense (or in the case of professionals, defensive tactics).

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1) By this we don't mean the threat of violence. Nor are we talking about a threat display that escalates into physical. Nor are we talking about a fight that they start. We're talking about how seemingly rough, tough people so often fall apart when 'hell come's a'knockin'" This is what separates the meateaters from the bullies and the huffer & puffers. Return to Text

2) Supposedly among Old West gunfighters there was the knowledge of the delay between when someone was shot and when his ability to offer threat was nullified. The term Dead Man's Ten refers to the ten seconds that a fatally shot person could still remain on his feet and still keep on shooting. During those ten seconds, you too could be fatally wounded. Return to Text
 
Let's not confuse mindset with normal physiological responses. When the SHTF your body releases a an entire cocktail of chemicals and hormones like adrenaline, noradrenaline and cortisol that shunt blood to your muscles, increase heart rate and breathing and shut down all non-essential neurological functions so that you become entirely focused on the problem at hand.

I once went through an enormous amount of trauma in a struggle with an opponent many times my size and yet I was alert and fought every step of the way. After the fight, even though I was bled white and essentially in tatters, I sat around alert and pleasant and painless for many hours waiting to die or be medevaced from a very remote area 50 miles from the nearest road.

Warrior mindset? No! I laugh at the suggestion. I was just experiencing a physiological response to danger. When a helo finally did come many hours later and I was deposited at a hospital, it was like letting the air out of a tire. Suddenly I was in enormous pain and fear about whether I'd live or not, or whether I'd be blind or disfigured. Suddenly the warrior was Pee Wee Herman.

Everybody has that in them.
 
"...Warrior mindset?..." Fictionally inspired nonsense of the highest order.

No. It isn't.

Every society that has ever raised a group of warriors has attempted to train and instill a "warrior mindset" in their force. From the Spartans, the Zulu's, to our soldiers in the middle east today. The "warrior mindset" is simply the ability to FOCUS on the task at hand despite any obstacles, stressors, or distractions, and complete the mission, whatever it may be, but it usually involves the immediate and deliberate application of controlled violence.

This mindset is developed through training and conditioning, just as it can be in the civilian sector for defensive purposes.

The same mindset and focus is used in many fields, however, most do not involve the use of violence.
 
So...why would having a "warrior" or "offensive" or any other sort of positive mindset be mutually exclusive with good tactics, cover or even retreat?

Harnessing the power of our physiological response through educating ourselves about expectations and incorporating realistic training as well as adopting the proper tactics to the situation (which may be running for cover, not charging like a "hero" or "commando") is hardly equal to being "macho" or a "hero." Nor is it just purely physiological either.

Sure the adrenaline dump and (some) of the potential side effects (tunnel vision, auditory exclusion, loss of fine motor skill) can help, but some aren't helpful, all vary depending on the person in what is experienced and to what degree.

You can't rely on just being able to perform because you are under an adrenaline dump, the better prepared you are psychologically for it, the better you will perform.

If you do get injured, I am sure no good can come from not having a "warrior mindset" if that means not quitting in the face of injuries.

Kodiak, I do believe everyone has it in them. We are all born with the same DNA and CNS. What differentiates us is our life experience and our mental processes. Many people in horrific situations like yours (dare I say in the US most?) do not fight back...they are called "victims." Had they fought back, they would have benefited from the adrenal response to help them keep going...but they don't.
 
So...why would having a "warrior" or "offensive" or any other sort of positive mindset be mutually exclusive with good tactics, cover or even retreat?

i don't think they are mutually exclusive, but having one does not lead to the other. there have been many people who are very skilled in tactics...they even teach them...but when under a real threat, they have demonstrated a uncanny ability to withdraw and cower.

i worked with officers who were very attentive during officer survival training and were able to discuss the proper responses in depth and at length...but when the SHTF, they demonstrated a failure to engage

Kodiak, I do believe everyone has it in them. We are all born with the same DNA and CNS

we are born with the gift of fear as a survival trait. overcoming that fear...or accepting it (see reference in my signature)...goes against our nature. that's why we admire, fear and hate those who do
 
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