Results of the .380 Up close and personal...

After seeing this, would you continue to carry a .380 or opt for something bigger?

  • Yes

    Votes: 136 70.8%

  • No

    Votes: 6 3.1%

  • Would not carry .380 to begin with.

    Votes: 50 26.0%
  • Total voters
    192
  • Poll closed .
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There are better choices than the .380, now that Kahr and Walther and others make pocket sized 9mm and .40 and .45 pistols. .380 is too weak to reliably punch through bone, which is what some critters and badguys are made from.

Attempted suicides to the bottom of the jaw fail with lots of rounds, including 12 gauge birdshot that many ignorant forum members argue "acts like a slug at close range".

It isn't the gun or the caliber, its where you get shot.
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More poweful cartridges make a hit that would have been an irritation with a lesser caliber into a stopping shot.
 
If it was a defensive senario, it'd more'n likely stopped the fight, I bet. If not, the application of a follow up would insure things.

If I ever wanna commit suicide, I'll use my .357 magnum or my .45 Colt with 300 grain hog stompers. I won't mess around with puny .45ACPs and I don't own a 10mm. I can't carry those guns in a pocket, though. Every caliber has its proper self defense uses.
 
Does Yes mean you would carry .380 or that you would opt for something bigger?


I was reading about a case where a police officer shot a perp five times in the chest with a .357 mag, none of the rounds penetrated the rib cage. The perp then killed the officer with a single shot from a .22 LR pistol.
 
It means Would you continue to carry the .380....

UPDATE - So, the ER decided to sedate and intubate for further exploration in ICU... turns out the bullet bounced off some bridge work and lodged in the trachea. He was talking and fine on transport, so it may have slid down while they made intubation attempts... they did struggle... He is resting, and hopefuly will get the help he needs.
 
IF that bullet had penetrated, it would have severed the brain stem...there is no quicker way to kill than that. (some of you may have heard of "the fatal T"...a hit in the bottom of "the fatal T" is a round through the lower lip, severing the brain stem, and INSTANT death...not even a flinch of nerve reaction after that)
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Yeah, of all the places in the body to be hit, the cervical spine area would most likely incapacitate the fastest. However, how many times do you think people have killed themselves by purposefully shooting through the lower facial structures and into the upper spine?

I will say, truth be told, it would be very doable. If you've ever seen anybody take x-rays of the C1-C2 area, all you do is essentially lean their head back and aim the beam through the mouth.

Here's an example...

image035.jpg

If you look through the mouth, you are looking right at the first and second cervical vertebrae. You can see where the dens (the post-shaped process on the C2 vertebrae) articulates with the socket of the C1 vertebrae. Bear in mind, that in this x-ray, the patient would have had their head leaned back pretty far. Normally, these structures wouldn't be visible through the mouth.

So yeah, there is certainly some bad places to be hit in the lower head. Anyways, I thought that picture/explanation might be interesting to some. I'm sort of a Radiology dork.

I do agree, though. The brain stem is probably the worst place to be shot.
 
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When I worked the range we had a guy do himself in with a rental gun; shot himself in the temple with a .38 wadcutter reload.

I can't imagine those target loads hit much harder than a .380, but the side of the head is clearly a more effective place to hit than through the mouth.
 
Quotes: by FTSESQ
"The gun that you have on you when the S hits the fan is a million times better than the gun in your safe that you don't carry all the time because its too big, too heavy, or whatever."

"A well placed 380 round will end someone faster than a poorly placed 44 mag."

Yep...+2 Well said...a lot of wisdom in both of those... I don't think that anyone would imply that a .380 is the SD caliber of all calibers. However, now- a-days there enough truly compact carry models for that caliber that make it a desirable choice over no-gun, or a bigger cumbersome gun, in certain situations. And like the man said..."the one you have with you is better than the one you left at home..." :)
 
I carry a Kahr .380 about 90% of the time, because it's convenient. I strive for situational awareness and avoid biker bars at closing time, etc. Had a friend shoot himself under the jaw with a .44 Magnum. Messed him up bad, but he didn't die.
 
You may want to rethink posting this kind of info in the future. It is a HIPPA violation technically. Just friendly advise, not flaming you.
Not a fan of 380, but I would rather have it than a pointy stick.
 
Carry what you are comfortable with. I have no beef with the 380. Just the micro pistols they are chambered in. Seems to me to be the worst of both worlds.
 
I personally witnessed a white tail shot in the skull with a 62 grain FMJ .223 at about 75 yards. The shot missed the brain pan and exited the rear of the skull. The buck was right pissed off. Had to be put down with a cervical spine dislocation. Does this mean that the .223 is an inadequate round? Hardly.
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I agree. I once shot a feral cat in the head with a .223 and the round creased the skull but didn't penetrate it. It did knock the cat pretty loopy though!
 
mcdonl: said:
Hi folks, I wanted to share an EMS call I responded to this morning and ask if you think this would have the same outcome with ANY caliber other than the .380ACP? I could envision maybe the .25 but that's it... I carry a .380 for SD at times...

Here is the story...

Called to an attempted suicide, Mechanism of Injury was a GSW to the chin with a .380 pistol (vision holding gun to chin....)

Patient shot himself approximately 6 hours before calling 911. Bullet entered chin, went through lower jaw, tongue, broke a bunch of teeth and some damage to soft pallet but no penetration into skull from mouth. The bullet was either swallowed or spit out as there was only minor damage to upper jaw/mouth.

Vitals were stable, some blood was aspirated but breathing was spontaneous, pt was transported without incident to trauma center.

He was either very lucky... or very un-lucky depending on how you look at it.
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Interesting story.

Reminds me of an incident that I had in the late 80's with a 17 year old juvenile (probationer) felon under my jurisdiction.

Seems he 'found' :rolleyes: a Glock 17 9mm that had a magazine full of Remington 115 FMJs.

Reportedly, he was twirling the pistol about his finger (through the trigger guard :scrutiny:) in an attempt to demonstrate his gun-handling skills to his 'associates' when it "just went off" :rolleyes: launching a 9mm 115 FMJ through his right cheek taking out several teeth on each side of his jaw (both upper and lower) and then exitting his left cheek. Broke both sides of his lower jaw, too.

He was lucky that he didn't kill himself or someone else and I was rather surprised to see him laughing and joking with the EMTs about getting a new "grill" as they loaded him into the ambulance enroute to the ER.

Moral of the story is that I'm not sure that a round through the upper portion of his cranium would've had any different effect. :evil:


I still carry a 9mm since it would be ridiculous to abandon the round for failing to lighten society's load.
 
Yes I will still carry my 380 when convenient. I remember a family friend's son remove their face with a 12 ga. in an attempted suicide via chin shot. Unfortunately, for them, they "lived". That only works on TV and doesn't make a 12 gauge inadequate for personal protection. I would carry one all the time if my pockets were bigger.
 
Would I carry a 380, well I do and just bought a Sig in it. I call them mini 45s. They travel slowly and that is what I want in a SD round. I have several 45s and carry on occasionally but my main is the smaller, lighter, more easily concealed, and just as accurate 380s. 9s and others travel fast and easily exit the body-- the slower traveler hopefully dumps all it's energy in it. A 357 is my sidearm during hunting season but in my pocket is a 380 even then.
 
HIPPA violation.

No information was put out that can readily identify the patient so no violation has occured.

I carry a Bersa Thunder 380 and I feel that as long as you have good shot placement it will stop the encounter.
 
.380

I spent a number of years scrubbing trauma surgery as an OR Tech, including gunshot wounds.

The damage incurred is not only due to caliber or placement, but the number of shots taken.

Think about what it would take, in your imagination, to get 5 or 6 rounds out of someones chest or abdomen, versus a single shot.

Based on my experience as an OR Tech I have no problems carrying a .380 for its concealability and light weight. That is based on the understanding that multiple rounds would go into my assailant at 15 ft or less.

PS: From my experience the messiest wounds are caused by shotguns and .45s.
 
This reminds me of a story I saw on Youtube of a women that was shot in the face with what is believed to be a .45 or .44cal weapon and survived. It did go through a car windshield and the story didn't say if it was a HP or FMJ. Just goes to say that crazy things happen.
Here's that story http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8uOJ4RMW_U

My personal opinion is that in colder weather I wear a .45, right now I have a Ruger LCP in my pocket. More than likely I will wear the LCP more often. It is just too convenient and easy to wear. I feel that displaying any weapon will stop a situation.
 
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