.45acp, colt automatic slide. .22 conversion box Pre-war?

The box is for a Colt Service Ace .22 RF Conversion kit.

Looks like someone put the .22 Ace kit on an old pre-war 1911 commercial .45 ACP pistol.
And put the .45 ACP parts in the .22 Conversion box for storage.

Too bad they got separated over the years!

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=177826343#PIC

You could build a working lower on an Essex frame and use the top end on that.

However, that old slide, two-tone mag, plus the Colt Ace box could all be sold separately for enough money to buy a brand new Colt 1911 and have some beer money left over I betcha.

rc

just guessing, but from the old patent date stampings, looks to be pre A1.

[free bump]

IMO, you might get the right people's attention better if you rename the thread colt .45acp, or colt automatic slide. title kinda sounds like .45LC, even in autoloader section.

gunnie

The two-tone .45acp Colt mags are listing on gunbroker for $50--$100.
The two-tone ACE mags, on the other hand, are listing for $250+. Don't have a clue on the value of the other items, but the ACE box might be suprisingly valuable.

Commercial means it isn't US Property marked. The 1911 (straight backstrap/mainspring housing) and 1911A1 (arched backstrap/mainspring housing) were developed for and sold to the US Army, but was also sold commercially without govt. markings. The 1911A1 was adopted in 1924. I can't give you any info past that.

without the serial # [would have been stamped on frame], this will be very hard to nail down as to mfg date. IF you can get connected to some one who NEEDS a colt 1911 commercial slide, which is ALSO in the same percentage group of finish as yours, their desperation will determine value.

not trying to be snotty about this, just presenting the facts. there are no listings of single parts/groups values that i know about. only complete accessory packages. and even those require a competent accessed value of the metal AND box. this gets very constipated, very fast. Fjestadt states that pre 1912 commercial models these days can get subjected to " a metallurgical X-ray examination" because fakes are so prevalant.

put it this way, an entire colt 1911 commercial starts at $2,000 and goes up to $15,000, 60-100% in the high polish blue finish. $3,700-750 in regular finish [post 1912]. sorry i can't be of more help. your best bet is to start bird-dogging the online auction sites, and after some hours/months of research, you MAY eventually find where someone listed and sold the same period slide in the past or future.

please note that their results may differ from your own. especially if you want to sell it in the current economy and they sold their's a couple of years back. this is why even a ball park value estimate may be hard to get. the key is finding someone who needs the slide to make complete a "headless horse" frame, or a very good frame with a damaged slide more valuable...

about your only option at this point.

gunnie

PS---if it doesn't conflict with the rules of his new job, Jim Supica might have a guess as to APPROX value. i actually suspect this will not be allowed with him on the taxpayer's funded payroll now.

The slide is not commercial; it is from an M1911 military service pistol. Whether it has any connection with your father's military service, I don't know, but the odds are that it does not.

As others indicate, your father (or someone) took the slide, barrel, and other parts from a .45 pistol and replaced them with the parts from the .22 conversion unit. Somehow the .22 pistol and the .45 parts became separated. I hope you can find the original .45 pistol and restore the parts, as an M1911 in that condition would be quite valuable.


Jim

i'll try to help...the picture i found in a fjestad blue book of a pre 1912 slide has the horsey behind the cocking serrations, left slide side. can't tell from your jpg above, as it stops before same.

below, from:

http://www.model1911a1.com/

..."Also of note are the Type 4 slide markings. The Rampant Colt has been moved to mid-slide between the patent and address lines and they are now stamped using a block style lettering font which continued thru approximately serial number C125000. Less noticeable is the reshaping of the recoil spring housing."...

so, if your slide has the "rampant colt" on left, rear part of slide in that is missing in your jpg, it is likely mfgd from 1912-1919. the one in his his posting at that address/web site was made in 1919. looking into the reshaped recoil spring housing will be another clue to follow, as is the explanation of what types 1-3 looked like.

go to the address posted above, he has many nice old pistols for sale, WITH JPGs. click on "pre war commercial" at lower left of homepage....

also see:

http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=14455.

i did a google search of "1911 colt commercial slides + for sale" and on the first two pages got NO listings. got one guy looking for a military slide, but this is likely not what he wants, he's cobbling together a military version. so you can see how in depth your search can get.

this is the sort of web searching that will yield the answers you seek.

i would suggest avoiding going to "the local gun store" seeking info about this slide. especially if you want to remain on friendly terms with the owner. unless he is a hardcore collector, he will not know. in that case he may try to low ball an estimate, hoping to scam you. or just say whatever comes to mind in order to protect his authority figure delusions.

gunnie

EDIT: my bad. i see the horsey in the middle of the scroll marks of jpg. make that a post 1919 mfg date.

..."The slide is not commercial; it is from an M1911 military service pistol."...

how did you determine that?

gunnie

found my own answer...

..."Note the slide marking on the right, "MODEL OF 1911. U.S. ARMY", since the pistol was not officially designated Pistol, Automatic, Caliber .45, M1911A1 until 1926."...

from: above mentioned model1911a1.com

gunnie

The terms "Model 1911" and "Model 1911A1" really apply ONLY to the pistol made by (the original Springfield Armory) or for the United States Government. Colt's commercial pistols, though identical in all but markings and finish, were called the "Government Model" and so marked; they did not have the terms "M 1911", M 1911A1", "U.S. Army" or "U.S. Property" on them. They also ran in a different number series, but that slide is too early to have a slide serial number.

Jim

This slide would have been made from 1918 to about 1926. The disconnector cut-out makes it pre "a1" and the horse placement makes it later than early 1918 - that is when the horse was moved, in the very early bit of the "Black Army" run.

It is in very high original condition and it and the magazine are indeed worth a bit to a collector trying to restore a gun. I'd guesstimate $500 for both pieces give or take.