Chinese military- suspicious of new caliber?

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Motega

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I was looking at what the Chinese are up to with the new caliber they are using. Do you think that it is way off to think that they might be developing this new caliber/round so that should invasions (in either direction) happen any captured ammo or weapons would be of limited value? I posted info below from another site but it seems to indicate this new round has no advantage over current offerings.
Without gathering much attention, China has been introducing a new assault rifle for its infantry. The QBZ-95 is unusual in several respects. It's a Bullpup design, meaning the 30 round magazine is behind the trigger and overall length is 30 inches (compared to 34.2 inches for the AK-47 and 38.8 inches for the M-16). But even more unusual is the cartridge, it's a 5.8mm round developed in China. The Chinese experimented a lot during the 1980s, with new cartridges of different calibers (from 5.5mm to 6mm) and settled on the 5.8mm round in 1989. The QBZ-95 weighs 8.3 pounds loaded. There is a light machine-gun version that uses a longer barrel and a drum magazine. This weapon weighs 11 pounds loaded, but is awkward to use because of the heavy ammo drum sitting behind the trigger. There is also a "carbine" version with a shorter barrel. The QBZ-95 is also a complicated piece of machinery, with, as some users have reported, "too many parts" (especially compared to the AK-47.) The 30 round magazine, sitting behind the trigger, makes it awkward to fire from the prone position. The new 5.8mm cartridge does not appear to be much more effective than the short 7.62mm used in the AK-47, or the 5.56 round used in the M-16. So why is China creating an enormous problem of shifting from it's current arsenal of AK-47s to a new caliber? The Chinese aren't saying. There is an export version of the QBZ-95 (the QBZ-97) that uses the same ammunition as the M-16. But the QBZ-97 is not selling well.​
 
Everybody has/is switching over to 22 size rounds, the US and NATO started in the 1960s (5.56x45), the Soviets/Russians /Warsaw pact in the 1970s (5.45x39), and now China with the 5.8.

They have finally made it as a world power again
They were the world power for thousands of years, the US for what 70 years? They view us as an upstart,a child.
 
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i would not be surprised if they used controversial ammo like depleted uranium, all copper like the Barnes TSX or a form of sintered ceramic.
 
really? You'd think China has the money to make "depleted uranium " ammo for every one of its soldiers in its vast army? Ceramic?
 
China has been modernizing their military for some years now, they are also learning that quality is important and not just quantity, the QBZs have been around for a while
 
Yeah I know, I have reloaded .40, .45, .308, .338, and .375 with Barnes for years, but I don't think our guys in the military use Triple Shocks on the BG's.

Though it would be terribly effective...:eek:

China won't hold back using the cheapest dirtiest mass produced method ever dreamed by man. They build the biggest dam on earth, they have the fastest trains, heck they build complete cities for NOBODY, and if they really want to reach outside their border for whatever reason they won't give a rats-ass about doing it clean.
 
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Seems to me the disadvantages harm them more than our inability to use their captured weapons would harm us. All in all, good news. Also consider, they have to use their optics. :evil:
 
I am by no means a military expert, I think it's just a national pride thing like stated before. They have the money and manufacturing ability to make their own firearms and ammo for their own soldiers. I think it looks a little silly when a world power uses another country's trademark weapon. Even though the AK platform is effective they want something designed by themselves. Although Australia uses Austria's AUG IIRC.

Imagine if the US had used a German designed firearm for awhile... oh wait we did (Springfield 1903) now we have our own AR's and M1's. Nationalism at its fullest.
 
The 5.8 caliber probably has a lot of potential but most likely its a terminal ballistics underachiever with what sounds like the cheap and heavily AP biased ammo types they're using in it now.
 
it is way off to think that they might be developing this new caliber/round so that should invasions (in either direction) happen any captured ammo or weapons would be of limited value?

This seems to be the central question in the original post, and the answer is "yes" -- it is off-base.

We do not use captured arms or ammunition in any kind of measurably significant way. We have rarely faced adversaries, even in very small conflicts, who used arms and/or ammo compatible with ours, and even if we were to face off with some country using 5.56 M-16 variants at some point in the future, using captured enemy munitions would be heavily frowned upon due to risks of sabotage, etc. See Project Eldest Son.
 
Prior to the mid-1990s, the PLA barely had enough AKs to supply their active duty military.

After they were granted most favored nation trade status by the Clinton Administration, the PRC made enough money during the mid-90s to mid-00s to create several new firearm series, new calibers and outfit all branches of their military with their newly created small arms. Except for some honor guard SKSs, the PLA no longer uses AKs, SKSs and the 7.62x39mm cartridge, they now only make them for export sales.

Thank the sheeple that shop at Wal-Mart for the PLA's small arms upgrades.
 
Good point on using captured ammo... never thought of that. Project eldest son! That's one for the play books for sure! Do you know how they did it? Plastic explosives instead of powder or something?
 
I think it looks a little silly when a world power uses another country's trademark weapon... Although Australia uses Austria's AUG IIRC.
That was a clerical typo. Ignore the fact that the erroneously-added A and L are on opposite sides of the keyboard. :neener:
 
Posted by:Quiet



Thank the sheeple that shop at Wal-Mart for the PLA's small arms upgrades.

WRONG! Thank the powers that be making it prohibitively expensive to run a business in America and charge decent prices, then factor in NAFTA etc and thats why, stop towing the BS 'wal marts fault' line and educate yourself, then blame the people who cause americas businesses to jump ship
 
Do you think that it is way off to think that they might be developing this new caliber/round so that should invasions (in either direction) happen any captured ammo or weapons would be of limited value?

No. Like other people have noted/suggested, I'd think it's a political and prestige decision and nothing more. Chinese 5.8mm doesn't do anything its competitors can do, and as people noted scavenging of enemy ammunition isn't really a viable option or consideration for any major military organization.
 
I feel like I have to point out that all of this is pretty much speculation; I haven't been able to find any information on the bullets they top these cartridges with. Can't really have an honest discussion about the 5.8 without knowing things like BC and SD of selected loads to compare it to established cartridges. Also, I'd like to know how consistent the ChiComs have managed to make their lots. If the Norinco stuff they export over here is the best they can come up with, they should stick to making <deleted> fingertraps.
 
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you can draw parallels between China and Nazi Germany. Both countries underwent huge improvements in a fever pitch of nationalism. Both countries intensively modernized their military. Now that they have all these new weapons what do they plan to with them? We saw what Germany did. What if they secure an alliance with Russia first? What kind of shape does that put us in?

Wanted to add that the Chinese are launching the worlds largest cargo ship with plans to beat it already by 50%. The ship will hold 14,000 20 ft cargo containers. Very conservatively if they were able to port three of these ships in succession, they could place 200,000 well armed troops on our coast in very short order. Add to this the situation in Mexico, and I am certain this country could find itself in a world of hurt so fast it would make your head spin. (I am not a conspiracy dude, but you do have to consider possibilities.)
 
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really? You'd think China has the money to make "depleted uranium " ammo

we are borrowing money from them remember not visa versa. Not to long ago they decorated the EMPIRE STATE BUILDING in RED LIGHTS to CELEBRATE 50 years of COMMUNISM! I dont thnk the chinese govt has money trouble.
 
I like this thread. Lets keep it gun related so it doesn't get closed.

Is the 5.8 round like anything else on the market?
 
Don't be hating, the US spends more on the military than the rest of the world combined and its all funded by Chinese lending. The real way to American security is to stop borrowing from a potential adversary. Does that mean the federal government is run by traitors? They're getting there. :D

Back to topic, there's a sociological concept called "saving face" that the Chinese are completely obsessed with, and their nationalism and by proxy having a native small arms industry ties into it. It's the same concept that allows them to defend their cheating Olympic gymnasts and not even suffer from any sort of cognitive dissonance.
 
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