What will an AR do that a Mini-14 won't?

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The entire point is, the M16 was preferred for combat, and M14 based guns aren't. So says the DOD.

It's more than putting a bullet downrange, but if that's all you need, a 10/22 can do the same. What weapons experts decided was to move away from the old design.

Wood stock? Subject to breakage at the wrist, accuracy requires carefully mounting the action, which a beater military gun cannot do. It must be easily dissassembled.

Open top steel receiver? Scopes won't mount over them as case ejection was given priority. The bolt locks into them, the barrel screws into it, making them a stressed part of the gun. The long, heavy construction is made flexible by mounting the stock directly to it. The operating rod is exposed and guided externally. The bolt is almost completely exposed to the elements.

The forward gas piston pushes on the operating rod, but that means the cylinder pushes on the barrel. If not coxial, it introduces barrel bending at just the point the bullet exits the barrel. Since combat guns are 2MOA, it's acceptable, but for precision shooting, who takes the top ten places in the last ten years? DI. No barrel bending.

The piston being separate from the bolt means cleaning it separately, taking longer to do so.

The sling is mounted to a barrel band, same for both Mini 14 or AR, the latter you can free float and add more rail as needed. Mini? Screw a threaded fastener into the stock, no rails or options, and you still need the band. Eliminating it seriously detracts from hard use.

The exposed operating rod and fixed charging handle reciprocates, which interferes with shooting next to cover or concealment. It's not ambidextrous, either.

Either will shoot a paper target or a bunny. The Mini 14 will not be as effective in combat, the entire genre of wood stocked open top exposed op rod guns was passed over decades ago for military use. No one issues them today for general use by all their soldiers, airmen, sailors, or Marines. It's a specialty weapon in the US, largely because we still had some, refitted them, and sent them to SWAsia, where they aren't being used much. It's a ratio of over 100,000 M16/M4's, vs. 5,000 refitted M14's with all sorts of AR enhancements.

The Mini? Ranch Rifle is exactly where it's best used, mount a rack in the tractor or farm truck, it's good enough to replace a lever action.
That's kind of my plan. I have a Win 94 in 44 mag that's just sitting in the back of my safe. Since I'm not a collector and I'm not into 44 mag in general, I want to trade or sell it for something in the .223 world.
 
No, the most common cause is the ARs close tolerances which are rapidly crudded up by its direct gas impingement system.
I mentioned that hard debris (like sand) in the close clearance between the bolt carrier and receiver can jam an AR, and that is the same for DI or piston. Thing is, powder residue won't jam the gun, even after fourteen thousand rounds of Wolf, as long as the gun is kept lubricated. If you neglect lubrication so long that the powder residue turns to cement and builds up so thick that it starts slowing the action down, that's operator error (and mini's like to be lubricated too, just like their Garand and M14/M1A ancestors).

Second, a DI AR doesn't put all that much more crud in the receiver than a piston AR does. Unless you are running a sound suppressor, most of the powder residue in an AR or any other gun comes out of the chamber and ejecting case, not the DI AR's gas tube. You do realize that the gas used to operate the action is primarily vented to the atmosphere, not into the receiver, yes?

I clean mine every few range trips just because I like to, not because it will jam if I don't. I do use a quality lubricant that won't dry up (Mobil 1, actually), and "crud" is not a problem.

A hideous folding stock. You have to seriously ugly it up for a folding stock.
Eh, I eventually put a Butler Creek folder on mine, and liked the look. I never cared for the Ram-Line folders, though.

Apologies for the lousy photo quality in the second pic, but this was mine (after 2004):

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^ See Bartholomew's post to clear up your issues with the AR.
I have no issues with ARs. My Colt CAR-15 would be the one I grab first. Been shooting them for 35 years and I own several in various configurations. As an instructor and armorer, I want something that is simple to operate, simple to maintain (read NO maintenance) for my wife and children, in case I am absent...or dead.

I also own several AKs for the same reason. Her and the kids carry Glocks ...reliability with little or NO maintenance.

Besides, she likes the Mini and trusts my decisions I make in her behalf.

M
 
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These types of debates are Fanbois vs Fanbois.

Both are good guns, and if we're talking the newest models, will shoot better than you can unless you're shooting from a lead sled.

Both had confirmed problems at one time in their lifespan, but the Mini's was corrected much later than the M16/AR15 line.
 
Do like I did, buy them both and you won't have to listen to all B.S. They are both good rifles, you can build an AR cheap if you hunt the parts. I just recently did a DPMS upper and a plum crazy lower and have about $540 in it and it works great and I bought a New tatical mini with the short heavy barrel at a dealer for $579 and it shoots great also. So for about the cost of a nicer grade of AR ($1200) you can have them both!
 
Do like I did, buy them both and you won't have to listen to all B.S. They are both good rifles, you can build an AR cheap if you hunt the parts. I just recently did a DPMS upper and a plum crazy lower and have about $540 in it and it works great and I bought a New tatical mini with the short heavy barrel at a dealer for $579 and it shoots great also. So for about the cost of a nicer grade of AR ($1200) you can have them both!

The voice of reason!
 
I actually traded an upper for my Mini. Its one of the newer ones and I think its an awesome little rifle. I still have one AR which I won't sell either. It wears an Eotech while the Mini runs irons and the accuracy isn't that far apart. I hunt with both of mine and you'd never know the difference in accuracy in the field. If I ever had to choose one I'd keep the Mini because it feels better and quite frankly its just more fun to shoot.

Now if I wanted a 10lb paper puncher then thats obviously going to be an AR but for a LW carbine to run around with give me the Mini. But then again I don't hang a bunch of stuff on my rifles, I like light and simple. If you prefer all the goodies then the AR is an easy choice.

I was skeptical because of all the negativity on the Mini too until a good trade popped up that I couldn't say no to, but man I'm happy I have one now. Just shop right, buy both and sell the one you don't like.
 
An AR can easily be converted to many different calibers. .204 Ruger, 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendal, .458 SOCOM, ........
 
Another thing the AR will do that the Mini won't is the ability to do major modification or repair of the rifle on your own.

With the AR you've got dozens of manufacturers making parts and you can do the work yourself. With the Mini, your choice is Ruger or a Ruger-authorized gunsmith and in many cases, you'll need to send it off.
 
No, the most common cause is the ARs close tolerances which are rapidly crudded up by its direct gas impingement system.

No, as said, the majority of the gas comes from the chamber - anyone who owned and hunted with an HK91 for over 20 years is familiar with 1)dirty brass 2) a dirty roller lock bolt 3) spending time cleaning a "superior" battle rifle that weighs 3 pounds more than an AR.

I mention the Hk because it has NO gas system at all. Therefore, it's a good example of what's known as a "control." That's an item you pick to compare other weapons to that may have different operating systems with a view to observing things in an unbiased and empirical manner. In other words, scientific, not superstitious BS.

DI detractors, take note, the Stoner design just moves the piston off the barrel, as in the Mini, and puts it in the bolt. You lose the heavy op rod, it's not hanging out to snag something, relieves another point of friction that has to be kept clean of sand and debris, and helps to enclose the bolt so it's not left uncovered and exposed to the elements.

Hunt with any exposed bolt rifle in freezing rain and you'll see why military designs keep taking the worst weather and conditions to heart. That wonderful almost a Garand design suffers the same problems it's big brother did in Korea.

Fair weather hunters who don't plan on suffering a lot of extreme conditions won't need the extra ruggedness, at which point it might be asked, Mini, or lever action. And the lever has some superior features that have kept it in the game for a long time. It's ambidextrous, light, slim profile, has no gas action requiring precisely loaded ammo to deliver the correct amount, and uses really common ammo, like the .30-30.

Compare - the Mini suffers with that only right handed, exposed operating rod, and exposed top ejecting bolt. Even levers can offer scopes mounted directly over the receiver and side eject. And the lever will have nice clean brass and a clean bolt, because it won't open to cycle the gun while gas residue still has pressure in the barrel. The Mini does, and will get a dirty action, just like the AR. It ejects dirty brass, and that alone proves it's just as prone as the AR, or ANY selfloading action, to defecate right where it eats.

But that's ok, because it makes NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL. The "tightly controlled clearances" are still in fractions of an inch when you bother to measure them, bolt and lever guns are even tighter. And yet, they don't have problems, unless you use heavy oil to lube them and shoot in subzero cold.

So, once you do the math, and look into it, you learn "No, the most common cause is the ARs close tolerances which are rapidly crudded up by its direct gas impingement system." is actually about as wrong as can possibly be.

But, being on the internet, it's treated as fact, right?

Not so much.
 
Those Saiga 's look interesting. For the price, they may be worth a try. Are they pretty accurate out of the box?
 
My Saiga is similar in accuracy to my newer Mini. Sights leave a lot to be desired but its a fun rifle. Just be warned that very few stay in stock configuration. So far mine has cost me about twice the sticker price right now and I'm still probably not done. I hunt with that one too, probably the most durable of the bunch according to the internet. All 3 have pro's and con's, just get all 3 and have some fun. I've never had a failure with any of mine but I don't run anything real hard. If its freezing rain or snowing I'm on the couch watching football. I do have thousands of rounds through my Mini, AR and Saiga though, all 3 just as reliable as the next.

If you want a scope get the AR. If you want basic irons get the Saiga. If you want a peep sight go Mini.
 
Both systems will take a 223/5.56 bullet and put it downrange so in terms of terminal results both can virtually do the same. It is actually the bullet doing it and not the carbine.

So aside from looks, ergonomics, other personal preferences and considerations these are some of the well known differences.

-Stoner design was designed for the 223 cartrige and the 223 cartrige was designed for the AR. It brakes down easily. Can switch uppers and serve many roles very well and it is extremely accurate by desing in part due to the inpigment and locking system.
It is a light system as this was the main requirement from the Army for Stoner's design.
It is a system that runs tight and that's yet another reason why it is so accurate so it is recommended a good maintenance plan and cleaning. It is easy to breakdown and clean something that is highly recommended although new exo coatings and materials are helping in the maintenability space.
Do not fire an AR just after being submerged, only a few modern AR's with short stroke piston systems can provide this capability with minimized risk.
These systems do not like too much mud, sand and foreign particles that might cause stoppages. Not a big concern for civilian use where we can just deal with the stoppages and later that night just clean the system.
ARs like to run clean and wet. Ask any veteran.

In certain situations the AR might be seen less 'socially' correct vs. the Mini when used for hunting but this has been changing quickly in the last few years. Now AR systems with low count magazines are everywhere used for hunting and are not seen, with few exceptions, as assault weapons that is where they come from. Obviously this depends as how the individuals present themselves for the hunt, with rails, tactical lights, laser, and all the Halloween gear included.

- Mini14 doesn't break up in 2 pieces nor it needs to. It is a ranch, varmint, home defense all around system. It is a great system the way it is. I can be customized, tacticalized but this is up to the operator. Some come with beautiful hardwood and many firearms enthusiasts like that aspect of the firearms and the ergonomics of a classic carbine.
It is a system with a loose fit concept that makes it by design extremely reliable to the point that it can be totally neglected in the back of a pickup truck and work well after abused. The loose fit concept comes with a price that mechanically impacts accuracy although this has been improved in the last few years using new barrels and accurizing options.
This carbine can be submerged, dragged though the mud and then just pi♠ss it clean and keep shooting. Same as the M1A.
This systems has no problem running dirty and dry.

Both beautiful options. For average civilian use both will do a great job so the rest is up to the person's taste, the purpose, ergonomics, looks, personal likes and dislikes and so...

Cheers,
E.
 
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Thanks Sir!

I believe that firearms enthusiasts are some of the most opinionated folks in the world and I like that a lot. In the end we all love our firearms and we feel a special connection with our rifles and pistols. But when we loose sight of what they really are, simple mechanical devices, and then we start arguing about personal preferences and questionable reports, then it is the same old broken record, 9mm vs 40cal, AR vs AK or Mini14, Glock vs HK, MINE VS. YOURS! and the list goes on...
With this type of dynamic we cannot make the High Road better than hundreds other forums out there by engaging in many senseless subjective arguments that lead nowhere.

When we approach each other with a sense of humility, open minded, respect and true experiences, then and only then, there is a basis for a healthy and constructive discussion where everyone can learn.

Everyone wins in the end! ...I will only stop learning the day I die.

Cheers.
E.
 
I believe that firearms enthusiasts are some of the most opinionated folks in the world and I like that a lot. In the end we all love our firearms and we feel a special connection with our rifles and pistols. But when we loose sight of what they really are, simple mechanical devices, and then we start arguing about personal preferences and questionable reports, then it is the same old broken record, 9mm vs 40cal, AR vs AK or Mini14, Glock vs HK, MINE VS. YOURS! and the list goes on...
With this type of dynamic we cannot make the High Road better than hundreds other forums out there by engaging in many senseless subjective arguments that lead nowhere.

You are absolutely right. Some folks can get "emotionally invested" in their taste in firearms, makes for good entertainment but not really civil conversation most of the time.
 
two cents

I've owned and enjoyed several AR's (still do) and a couple mini's (long gone by now). The AR is an upgrade to any mini. I find the many options available for the AR platform although daunting at first for beginners, the best and most exciting aspect of the weapon. I have friends who are barely mechanically competent to make a sight adjustment and others who are comfortable changing a barrel. Regardless of your abilities the AR system offers near endless opportunities to buy or build the perfect tool for your particular needs. My advice is to handle as many AR's in as many configurations as possible and decide what role this gun should fill in your arsenal. Take your time in making your decision while you save your cash. The weapon you buy will likely be more $ than any mini but in my opinion well worth the dollars in terms of satisfaction.
Just an opinion from a guy who asked the same question long ago.
 
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