The Box O' Truth #26 - Little Guns vs. The Box O' Truth - Page 4
Lessons learned:
1. Ball ammo tends to penetrate more that the JHP ammo in these guns, as expected. If you want the optimal 12 inches of penetration, maybe that is the best ammo available.
2. The only rounds that reached the necessary penetration were the .32 ACP, the .380 ACP, the Mak with Ball and the .38 Special. Quite honestly, they did better than I would have guessed.
3. Ammo quality makes a difference.
4. These pistols are relatively hard to aim well. They are best at very close distances.
I've come to more or less the same conclusion. With lesser calibers, I'd rather have a flat point bullet, with slightly lower weight, but velocity in the 900-1100 fps. Equal to that, at least in 9mm, is a 147 grain, HST HP, at around 950 fps, almost hoping that it won't expand.
I imagine that if I ever have to shoot at someone, they better be pointing a gun at me. That means it's likely that my shot is going to have to go through
their arms to reach a vital spot. Therefore penetration becomes far more important.
Hp's were designed to sell to law enforcement. It's kind of hard to charge a lot of money for a piece of lead. Now, if you can sell that HP's provide the benefit of in theory, stopping the target faster, and, providing less chance of penetration, and, that they cost more, now you are able to sell them to
LEO, for a huge profit. This isn't theory, it's history.
I wonder also if the sales pitch was that the bullets disrupt more in the first 6-8 inches, causing more damage, more likely to stop, and not kill, vs. the long, straight through channel caused by a wadcutter, of LFN type bullet?
Perhaps what works for LEO is not best for self-defense situations?
Keith and the boys came up with a Keith style bullet, and, since they were evolving from wadcutters, I suspect they found that the wadcutters were less stable and penetrated less reliably, due to tumbling. Also keep in mind that some of their gun fights were longer range then we would consider, except in places with wide open spaces.
My opinion has always been that HP's do work, but, that they need considerable velocity, and bullet weight, to do so reliably. Also, to get them to expand reliably, and still penetrate, they have to be heavy for caliber, heavier for caliber then most service rounds can handle, and still maintain adequate velocity.
If I am going to use a hollow point, it must fit certain parameters. It must weigh 230 grains, not ideal, or more. It must be going at least 1100 fps.
If that isn't an option, I go with John Browning, and his original flat point, 200 grain, 950 fps .45 ACP load, or faster.
In conclusion, I find the wadcutters MAY not penetrate adequately due to the bullet being unstable, due to the overly large frontal area.
Better to go with the proven Keith/LFN style lead bullet, that does penetrate
straight, and effectively. With a .38, I don't really consider HP's, since they one can't be pushed fast enough, and two aren't heavy enough.
Food for thought:
Hawk bullets makes fantastic HP's. I called them, and asked about 275-450 grain, .025" jacketed HP's for my guns, in .475 to .510 caliber. They said these rounds work great, but, they recommend at LEAST 1200 fps for reliable expansion.
I do have a .357/38 special 360PD. In that, I've found the two rounds worth carrying, for me, are the following:
Fioochi 148 grain SJHP's, that go 1131 fps out of my gun, and,
Buffalobores 158 grain lead HP, that goes 1040 fps.
Recoil is pretty much the same.
Since I am recoil limited, I often think that a LFN/ Keith style bullet, at that same weight, probably go with 148 grains, but at 1100-1200 fps, might be ideal.
If you start running numbers on wound channels, with flat point, little expanding bullets,
you find that the critical area seems to be in going from 600-800 fps, into the 1100-1200 fps, and, that when you go over that, you reach a point of diminishing returns for velocity, in handguns.
Just the observations of an old gun crank that never had to shoot another person.
