Does this 9mm Look Right to You?

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Foto Joe

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I've been loading 9mm with 115gr LRN for almost 1,000 rounds. The one on the left is an example of what those look like.

9mmBullets.jpg

Yesterday I picked up a box of Hornady 115gr HP/XTP .355's just for grins.

According to Hodgdon's loading data the OAL length for the LRN's is 1.100". Those because of the ogive of the bullets I have down to 1.062" and they work great, not only that, but they actually look like I think they're supposed to. They work good and chronograph right in the ballpark with the published data.

Now comes the HP/XTP's:
The round you see on the right is a dummy load (1 of 8). These measure out to 1.120" (published data is 1.125"). I've drop tested them in the chamber and everything clears well, no contact with the rifling by probably .015" at least. I've also loaded them into the magazine and cycled them all through the gun (S&W Model 39-2) with no issues.

My problem is, they just don't look right to me. But I'm paranoid about getting them too short and causing pressure problems so here's what I'm thinking.

The LRN's I load are approximately .038" shorter than Hodgdons OAL of 1.100". I think what I would like to do is shorten these up to 1.085" which is approximately .040" shorter than published. Then load them up with the absolute minimum charge and increase by .2gr up to .4gr above minimum, chronograph and test for accuracy with each load combination.

Basically, I'm new enough at this that I need someone to pat me on the head and say, "You'll be fine Joe, chances are what you're planning on doing will not result in grave bodily injury or death."

I do not have access to a Hornady loading manual, I'm using Hodgdons data published on the internet. Which incidently matches Lee's data for the same weight bullet. The powder is Universal by the way.
 
DO NOT TAKE THIS AS GOSPEL, OTHERS WILL CHIME IN SOON THAT KNOW FOR SURE..

But I thought the 115gr's were supposed to be at 1.060" OAL from the Hornady manual. I'll check when I get a chance unless someone else chimes in sooner.

Damian
 
I appreciate the input. The 1.060" sure makes a lot more sense visually than what I've got right now. If I get enough info I'll probably work up my test loads tomorrow, the weather is supposed to suck, I mean blow, all day in Arizona where I'm at right now.
 
As rfwobbly often illustrates wonderfully with his pictures (maybe he can post more pics here :D), flat point bullet nose profiles will load shorter than round nose profiles while providing greater bearing surface to stabilize the bullet in the barrel/rifling.

I would seat them shorter (like 40S&W TCFP bullets) but ultimately, function test in your pistol/mag will dictate how long they can be.

Have you done the barrel chamber drop test for max OAL? If they chamber at that OAL, then feed/chamber them from the magazine by manually releasing the slide. If you have feeding issues, you will need to shorten the OAL until you have reliable feeding/chambering.
 
bds said:
Have you done the barrel chamber drop test for max OAL?

Done & done, all functions are fine. Except they look like the bullet will fall out if I tip them over.
 
Joe -
They look long to me too. Too much bullet out of the case. The Hornady #7 suggests 1.075". Always the experimenter, I might try 1.100", which is between yours and Hornady, but still long enough to feed really good.

For consistent seating lengths, try a flat seating anvil with this bullet.
 
It 'looks' like it's not seated near as deep as the RN.

Seating depth = (case length + bullet length) - OAL ......Compare the two.

rf's idea sounds good.
 
1.050" to 1.100" is the correct OAL range for the XTP. In my P210 the XTP hits the rifling at 1.115". I used to have a S&W952 where it hit at 1.125". I read an article in Handloader where they claimed the shorter OAL was slot more accurate.
 
Hornady's latest manual uses 1.075" for the 115gn XTP and lists 4.0-4.5gn for Universal powder. If you use their data, use their seating depth. If you're using Hodgdon's data use their seating depth. The 9mm is very sensitive to seating depth.
 
Too long?

I have always thought that of my 9mm hollow points ( Rem. Golden Saber, Rem. JHP, Speer GoldDots,and Hornady XTPs) they all look too long but they all feed well and shoot accurately.
 
helotaxi said:
Hornady's latest manual uses 1.075" for the 115gn XTP and lists 4.0-4.5gn for Universal powder. If you use their data, use their seating depth. If you're using Hodgdon's data use their seating depth. The 9mm is very sensitive to seating depth.

From this info, it appears that Hodgdon & Hornady have the same info for this given bullet weight. Unfortunately, Hodgdon doesn't have data for the Hornady bullet, only a Speer GDHP of the same weight. The powder charge is the same, it's the OAL that is different. I talked to my brother last nite up north and of course he doesn't have a Hornady book either, only Speer information.

The 9mm is very sensitive to seating depth.

This statement is too broad for someone with little experience loading for auto's. Sensitive in what way? They blow up? They squib? Something in between?

I'll work up some test loads today and if the weather stays reasonable maybe get out and "unload" them in front of a chronograph.
 
Meaning the small case capacity and short cartridge OAL can spike pressure to unsafe levels very quickly. It doesn't take much to add 10,000psi to the chamber pressure.

If you are at a starting charge of powder, the cartridges feed and eject fine via hand cycling the action, I wouldn't be alarmed. Shoot a few and see how it goes. Reading this does not make me alarmed.

BTW, the XTP hollow points always look weird in the 9mm due to their design, but look "normal" in other cartridges.
 
I seat my 124gn and 147gn XTP's between 1.100 to 1.115. That keeps them just off the lands and grooves. They chamber and shoot very good.
 
Foto Joe,

Do you want them to look right or shoot right? If they chamber without binding, work up a load at your 1.125" OAL. If you want to stay closer to Hornady's factory OAL, seat them to around 1.100" OAL and work-up a load. The key is working-up. Start low and work-up.

My Hornady data shows an OAL of 1.050". They list a starting load of 4.5 and a max of 5.1grs of Bullseye at that OAL. That's alot of Bullseye for that short of an OAL. Clearly, if you can stuff five grains of Bullseye in there, you will not blow yourself up with your current loads.
 
918v said:
Do you want them to look right or shoot right?

By look right, I meant it looks like something is wrong here. Thanks for the Hornady OAL's. I'm putting my dummies together right now and after the wife leaves for work I'll get to putting charged ones together.
 
Just loaded up 200 Hornady 115gr HP/XTP last night, and I seated them at 1.10 on top of 4.7gr of 231/HP38
 
Okay, so here's what we've got.

The LRN on the left is for comparison only.

9mmBullets-02.jpg

The bullets are Hornady 115gr HP/XTP's loaded on top of 4.0, 4.2 & 4.4 grains of Universal. The overall length is 1.075" +/- 0 for the R-P Brass and 1.081 +/- 0 for the PMC Brass. Don't ask me why the .006" difference between the different brands of brass I'm clueless.

These are all loaded with zero tolerance on powder weight and individually weighed because tomorrow morning before it gets hot enough in AZ to fry an egg on a motorcycle seat I'll get out with the chronograph and see how they fly. I've loaded up 24 each so I'll have enough to check accuracy as well.

Thanks everybody for your help, I'll post a pic or two of how they hit a target tomorrow sometime.
 
Now, those are nice looking rounds!
Don't ask me why the .006" difference between the different brands of brass I'm clueless.
Brass quality and thickness vary head stamp-to-head stamp and even lot-to-lot for same head stamp cases. I don't worry about that minor variations as there are other factors that affect accuracy even more like powder charge/bullet weight variations. If I am doing "ultra" accuracy testing, I cluster bullets by same weights - most commercial bullets can vary 1-3 gr and up to 5+ grains.
 
I checked my data - I have used this bullet, and it gave me good results seated to 1.050 and 1.060, but that was some time ago, haven't used them in quite a while.
What is that single lube groove LRN you're using? Looks like dark marble!
Foto, this is NICE weather in AZ, what's the matter? Come back when it's July and I'll show you why outdoor ranges open at 7AM...and are deserted at 9AM. ;D Where are you hanging out?
 
Why would any one want shorter rounds? The COL in manuals is the minimum recommended. How the round "looks" is of very little significance. How the round cycles is about all that counts.
Personally, both rounds look too short for me.
Remember, the factory ammo has to work in all SAAMI chambers, so it is short.
You can load for your personal guns and can optimize length and charge weight.
 
Why would any one want shorter rounds? The COL in manuals is the minimum recommended.
That's right. If Hornady lists the 1.075" as the COL, they're basically saying don't go any shorter than this.
Loading long reduces the pressures and places the bullet closer to the rifling for better accuracy.
You should aim for the longest COL that works in your gun. Nobody can tell you what COL is best for you and your gun.
 
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