Is Philiadelphia really this bad?

for all we know, the guy could have been waving his gun in the air......so its really hard to say one way or the other.

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Do you think that just MAYBE he would have been charged in some form with something of which that is an element of the crime...?

The only "waving" of guns in this incident was by people wearing badges... who shouldn't be.

Noticed that Fox News morning show mentioned this case today. They only said that people with carry permits may be subject to search, ordered to lay on the ground for the search, and so forth to verify that their "papers" are in order. Not good. It is the presumption of guilt versus innocence that has me bothered. They did not comment on the statement and it was a tiny segment with no interviews.

Do you think that just MAYBE he would have been charged in some form with something of which that is an element of the crime...?

The only "waving" of guns in this incident was by people wearing badges... who shouldn't be.

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did you bother to read my other posts.....

of course the guy wasnt actually waving his gun in the air......hed have been shot.

like ive said 100 times........all we have is an audio recording.......all he have to go on is what they say they are doing....and what a person says and what a person does can often times be 2 very different things.

It is well settled law that a constitutional right may never be converted to a criminal offense.

The state's constitution applies here, not the Federal one. He does have the right to openly carry a weapon or weapons. Someone mentioned that a concealed carry permit is required for open carry in certain cities. Corrupt state laws and court decisions appear to have undermined that right.

Right to Bear Arms
Section 21.
The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.

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What really gets me is "...shall not be questioned." Wow...that's very strong wording and the state is violating it with their permit system!

Ouch...the city is violating state pre-emption and state supreme court decisions. I find it amazing that the citizens of Philadelphia put up with it.

There have been several LEOs killed in the last 12 calender months.

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How many were killed by someone with a CCW? I'll say 0.

Yes, it is tragic when a cop gets killed in the line of duty.
However, that duty is to UPHOLD the law, not ignore it.

like ive said 100 times........all we have is an audio recording.......all he have to go on is what they say they are doing....and what a person says and what a person does can often times be 2 very different things.

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If the Philly PD had proof that he'd committed an actual CRIME, they would have presented it by now.

Instead, they've made a continuous series of self-incriminating statements against penal interest. You know that a police department is out of control when IT'S the one making all of the "excited utterances". It's going to be REALLY tough to explain why Viper was prosecuted, but nobody in the recent open carry protest was. The ONLY explanation is unlawful retaliation via malicious prosecution. That's not going to fly in the criminal trial. It'll fly a LOT worse in the civil suit that's coming.

Here is another incident where they are quoting PART of a crimes code in order to make OC in Philly illegal even with a LTCF. Those uniforms sure look "familiar".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1YMgdphmwA&feature=related

Same incident, different recording with better audio. Notice how one of the officers REFUSES to give him his name.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hNXgpRvsZw&feature=related

Shawn

My Montgomery County license says "Pennsylvania License To Carry Firearms" It says nothing about open or closed carry.

But I can't see a massive amount of people walking around with no training and little practice open carrying in a large city like Philadelphia.

Yes, that's right. Just move to the back of the bus like they tell you to. Get away from that lunch counter. Don't drink at that water fountain. Don't cause a commotion. They're just doing their job.

littlebluevette wrote:

Why would you want to open carry in Philadelphia?
1. You open yourself up multiple times to getting killed by thugs who will hit you from the rear because they want your weapon.
2. If someone has something against you or wants to rob you they will just shoot you first.
3. The police have it tough enough, why would you want attract this type of attention?

Just because it is legal don't make it smart....

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Here's why: http://www.theconstitutional.com/

1. & 2. I suppose you can cite to multiple instances of both, amIright?

3. All a police officer has to do to keep his job easy is follow the law.

Now, please don't let me catch you with uncovered books; people are likely to steal them from you, they are full of dangerous ideas, and the powers-that-be can't tell what you might do with them.

Gun carriage is settled law in the US 3d circuit (of which PA belongs). Everyone should read the holding of US v Ubiles:

Holding that the search and seizure of Ubiles was unlawful, we will reverse. The "Terry" stop in this case was not supported by reasonable suspicion "that criminal activity [was] afoot...." Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1, 30, 88 S.Ct. 1868, 20 L.Ed.2d 889 (1968). First, it is not a crime to possess a firearm in the Virgin Islands

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Is Philiadelphia really this bad?

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No.
It's worse.
I'd rather spend 5 days in Detroit than 1 day in Philly.

Sad day for the state and the Republic