What def. ammo?

As far as smooth cycling, I would expect something european like fiocchi to work best. in a CZ. It hasn't had any reliability problems has it? If so, I wouldn't carry it.

There ain't no magic bullets...to be honest any of the top offerings like Golden Sabre, Gold Dot, Federal LE9T1, etc will do fine. I have been in on the testing of just about all of the big name defensive ammo brands and my personal preference is for Cor Bon DPX. It has an edge in performance after passing through a barricade like a car door over the other brands.

For HP ammo, I've put Gold Dot's, HST's, Critical Defense, PDX and Fiocchi and Golden Sabers down my Phantom and it digests them all without a hiccup. Same with FMJ. It's really a very, very nice and seemingly reliable weapon.

Any of those listed above will work fine..

if you do your part.

Assuming it cycles 100 percent in your pistol I vote for Federal HST... 147gr standard pressure if 9mm, or 180gr if .40 S&W.

ETA: I just saw some tests, shooting through bone and ballistic gel, which included Fed Hydra Shock and, like all others except Corbon DPX, it didn't expand. The DPX expanded perfectly. I may need to sell all my HST and buy DPX... won't know until I reseach this further.

If corbon dpx works in your gun that is what I would recommend.

snooperman said:

if you do your part.

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What he said.....

I don't subscribe to magic bullets, just magic numbers. The numbers for 9mm are what I consider marginal --it is the smallest defensive calibre I'll carry (given a choice of course). I prefer the 10mm, it doesn't really matter what bullets sit in that brass... They almost all do the job equally well.

Though the 9mm numbers are meager, bear in mind that the 115gr. +P round is moving at about the same speed as a 110gr. .357mag from a 4" bbl. Not so shabby now is it?

For 9mm, I tend to like a bullet that has a little better of a track record and as much ummph as I can pack into that tiny brass. I only carry the +P or +P+ variety in my Glock. I like the Winchester 115gr. +P+ and the 124gr. +P T-Series. That T-Series bullet is the next generation black talon round, the other one, the 115gr. one is the one that Illinois State Patrol used for years. The CorBon stuff is good too, expensive but good. But considering the cost and the bullet used in manufacturing, I'd go with the T-series in 115 or 124 grains. I could load the CorBon myself if I cared to load high pressure loads (I usually don't).

Just remember that a 9mm makes a 9mm hole (or thereabouts, you get it) and that one 9mm isn't that far off from another, ie, the kinetic energy is about the same for any given bullet weight. The bullet designs themselves are not all that different either, at least in their ability to tranfer energy. Some open better, some penetrate more, but they all follow Newton's Laws.

Therefore bullet selection isn't as important as how to conduct oneself in a gunfight. Just get something light and fast, 115 or 124 grains, +P or +P+ if your pistol can handle it.

Oh yeah, the main reason I toute the Winchester Ranger stuff is because it seems to be pretty consistent and it is rated as +P or +P+. I'd say it works well in my pistol but everything works in my Glock. The bullets are also supposed to be designed to work better than their run of the mill HP. They work for me, but more important than the bullet design is the bullet weight and powder charge.

Just keep in mind that 9mm isn't the best known penetrator, which is important in a gunfight. That is why I like the .45 or the 10mm. Not that the 9mm won't work, it is just that .45 and 10mm work faster.

skimbell said:

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+1 as long as it cycles reliably in YOUR gun!

There ain't no magic bullets...to be honest any of the top offerings like Golden Sabre, Gold Dot, Federal LE9T1, etc will do fine.

Click to expand...

^this^

Pretty much every one of the midrange defensive choices is designed to do the same things:
- penetrate to ~12-16"
- run reliably in a variety of duty pistols
- expand after going through light barriers
- keep going after somewhat heavier barriers

So it comes down to what YOU can find and test, what YOU are willing to pay for and stock in bulk, and what YOUR other guns run on, too.
Look for something you can get reliably in 50x boxes, the 20 or 25 round boxes are grossly overpriced. Beyond that, avoid anything more complicated or gimmicky than JHP or the new squishy-ball filled HP rounds, exotic ammo is generally all marketing and no performance.

That being said:
Every pistol I own** runs well on some variant of Gold Dots, and I can get them reliably from a few vendors in 50x boxes for a somewhat reasonable price. In 9x19 124grain+P runs in everything, I stock some standard pressure 124 and 115 for antiques, just because. For .45acp I stock 200 and 230 grain loads as I find them, both run fine.
I stock Winchester and Federal premium loads, too - as I find them. No reason to limit myself to one choice.

===

Mike1234567, let me get this straight, you'd SELL ammo you already have to buy new ammo? Why not just set aside the old stuff as a known reliable round?
Oh, and I'll buy the old stuff at $0.20 per round, in 9x19 and .45acp



**(correction, no idea about makarov [CZ82] or tokarev [CZ52 / Yugo M57] )

bigfatdave... To buy some PDX, yes, I'll probably sell some of my stockpile... but not at .20/rnd. Nice try though!!

PDX Ammo Feeding Issue

Before you settle on an ammo, make sure that you try a few brands and understand the ins and outs. Don't rely on well-intended advice. It's your life. For example, although Remington Golden Sabre are not the most powerful defensive cartridges, they always feed reliably. That can be important when your life is on the line.

I use PDX1s, but I have found that my Taurus 1911 will not chamber the first PDX1 round from a full 8-round magazine. I have tried it with three different brands of quality mags. I have polished the feed ramp, but still no go. I think that the PDX1 may just be a RCH short. They measure 30.89 mm, while the standard Winchester JHPs - both 230 grain - measure 31.11 mm. If I download my 8-round mag to 7 rounds, I am good to go. Then I eject the mag and reload the seventh round, so I have a full eight in the gun, but 8+1 is out of the question.

And don't fire a few rounds and hope you don't need to use the pistol for real. Practice, practice, practice. The muscle memory may save your life.

Has anyone else had a similar experience with this or any other ammo?

Before we get too far down the "oh no only PDX works" road step back. The test being cited in this thread had the bone simulant outside of the gel. In other words it was not real bone and did not represent the actual constructin of the human body. It is only one test and should not be a life changer. Further study should be done before making rash decisions or recomending $1.50 per round ammo.

With that being said. I carry Winchester Ranger Bonded 147gr rounds in my CZ P-07 Duty. They feed reliably which is most important. Second according to Winchester's published data they achieve 3.6 inches more penetration through heavy cloth than the 127gr +p+ Ranger T. They do give up .1 inch of expansion though. That is just my choice based on the parameters that I find most important.

If the Ranger T (the most modern version of the talon bullet) is something you are interested in I still recomend the 147gr. It has the most penetration of the three available options and only gives up .02 inches of expansion.

Across the spectrum you can't really go wrong with Speer Gold Dot, Federal HST, or Winchester Ranger T (or Bonded). They tend to be the top choices of LE and work consistently to stop bad guys.