Move to Libya to exercise 2nd amendment?

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i'm not sure what the popular insurrection in Libya has to do with US gun law.

Hollis Wayne Fincher is in a federal gulag RIGHT NOW for doing what the Libyans are now free to do.
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Fincher knowingly and willingly violated US law. Fincher fought the law and the law won.

David Olofson is no longer in a federal gulag, but he WAS there for a rifle that merely malfunctioned, and he didn't even actually violate the byzantine nonsense from our so called federal "government" which got a cowardly jury "of his peers" to actually convict him.
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The gun did not malfunction. It had a three position selector: The full auto position was unmarked. Olofson loaned that gun to a man who took it to a range and fired it full auto. The cops came and the rest is history. The federal appeals court decision:

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-7th-circuit/1407580.html
 
If the freedom to own a machine gun without waiting a period of time first is a particular problem with you, move to Libya, and if you survive to do so, come back in six months and let us know which country is the better place to live.

Freedom is only as good as what people choose to do with it.
 
Libya and Machine guns

I thought this type of discussion was not permitted! Form your opinions on intelligent thought about what you observe. Read as many sources as possible to get as many viewpoints as possible. Next, how can anyone compare Libya to the U.S. I am not as smart as some and I will have to wait quite awhile to form an informed opinion about the gun and the civilian population in this third world country.
 
Move to Libya to exercise 2nd amendment.
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That's like moving to the Moon to enjoy the oxygen.



There is no Second Amendment in Lybia, that's a US Constitution thing.

There is no oxygen on the moon, that's an Earth atmosphere thing.
 
The point is, the citizens are free to possess an object WITHOUT 3 months of government B.S., paperwork, permission, and limitations on an aging pool of overpriced machine guns (like here in the USA).
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That's no point at all.

Lots of things happen in wars and war zones that aren't within the normal bounds of legal activity.

People kill people and aren't charged with crimes or even investigated by the authorities.

People handle and use all sorts of weapons not generally available to the general public.

It has nothing to do with the rights of the citizenry, it is purely about the exigencies of combat.
 
Perhaps the OP meant to highlight the irony that Obama would support handing out weapons to overcome a tirant but won't allow same weapons for his citizens.
 
I thought this type of discussion was not permitted!
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It's permitted when political parties are left out, and when thought is put into the discussion. It's quite useful.

When it devolves into politics and wackiness, then the door is closed. So far so good here, and many thanks to everyone for that, including the OP.

It's remained an interesting civil discussion.
 
or the irony that citizens of a thirdrate cesspool have more freedom to own a weapon than you do.
 
or the irony that citizens of a thirdrate cesspool have more freedom to own a weapon than you do.
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There is no doubt it's a shame that they have access to firearms that we here in the US don't. I think the mistake is in thinking that firearms are the only defining thing in what "freedom" might be.

Remember, the Second Amendment is in place as a protection against government going too far and taking the other freedoms.

If you had only the gun, and no freedoms to protect to begin with, would you really care that you had the gun?
 
Yep. Its pretty easy to get an automatic battle rifle or machine gun in Libya. But it seems that I could get that lots of places for the right amount of money. That still does not take the fact away that what others have pointed out, freedom to keep and bear arms is only one small part of being a free society. Wanna bet on how long they would let you keep an AK if you said you did not wish to participate in the Muslim religion? Or if you spoke out against someone that gave you that AK-47? China at one time as well as Russia advocated weapons in the hand of the people to overthrow the people that were in power/fighting for it. Soon as the "right" people were in power, please turn in your firearms, you don't need them anymore!
I can have high hopes for the people of Libya. And the rest of the people in that part of the world, but I am not going to bet on them having any real change or success.

Am I thrilled of the various laws put in place to restrict/ban various sorts of firearms, be they automatics, semi automatics, look evil, take magazines with more than 10 rounds?
No.
Do I think that we as civilians should have access to everything the police do and use?
Yes.
I do think that legislation needs to be fought, but after a couple of tours in Iraq I would like to think we as a country are still better off than they are in the Middle East by and large.
I would hope that we can continue working the tide as we have been.

It is not perfect but there are not many places in the world where you have the total selection of weapons we can have in the United States.
But to imply that overall Libya is more free than we are because of pick up trucks of AK 47s being driven around (And likely financed by the US or the NATO/UN) I think is disingenuous.
 
Wrong. The overthrow of a tyrant RESTORED CIVIL LIBERTIES AND GOD GIVEN RIGHTS. Whether those liberties remain in tact in the coming years is irrelevant to the reality on the ground right now.
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Are you serious?

There are NO civil liberties right now - it is called anarchy due to a civilian uprising against an abuse of power (something which, if advocated here would get this thread locked, no matter how relevant ;))

There will be months of tribal power grabs, martial law, and power and freedom to own guns will only depend on which group you belong to
 
Is this for real? Are we sure it's not April 1st? Nope still Aug 22nd.

OP,
Move there quick. Set up your base of operation, get your AK and keep us posted. I know we will all look forward to blog post. And I do mean post, one, singular. Cause once you try to claim the other rights you enjoy here you will be in the "gulag". Your word, not mine...
 
Libya...a real garden spot. If there was a revolution going on here, there would be plenty of full auto battle rifles around.

We'll just have to see after the revolution with regard to posession of full auto firearms.
 
or the irony that citizens of a thirdrate cesspool have more freedom to own a weapon than you do.
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Actually they were rated if I remember right somewhere around 57th out of all the countries of the world for quality of life (food shelter seems to be a rare commodity). To lazy to look it up. Quaddafi did spend some of the oil money trying to upgrade the country from a Bedouin tent town.

according to Wikipedia

Today, high oil revenues and a small population give Libya one of the highest GDPs per capita in Africa and have allowed the Libyan state to provide an extensive level of social security, particularly in the fields of housing and education.[187] Many problems still beset Libya's economy however; unemployment is the highest in the region at 21%, according to the latest census figures.[188]

Compared to its neighbors, Libya enjoys a low level of both absolute and relative poverty. Libyan officials in the past six years have carried out economic reforms as part of a broader campaign to reintegrate the country into the global capitalist economy.[189] This effort picked up steam after UN sanctions were lifted in September 2003, and as Libya announced in December 2003 that it would abandon programs to build weapons of mass destruction.[190]

Basic education in Libya is free for all citizens,[210] and compulsory to secondary level. The literacy rate is the highest in North Africa; over 82% of the population can read and write.

Probably been going down hill since the Romans defeated Carthage. Will be interesting to see what happens with the new National Transitional Council which is a political body formed to represent Libya by anti-Gaddafi forces.
 
The "rules" in a country experiencing a civil war is no comparison to a republic under the rule of law, unless you want to compare anarchy to order.

Any argument related to the right to bear arms based on a comparison is specious.

There are numerous countries in a similarly lawless state and when there are no rules in force anything is "permitted".

OTOH, if you were a Qaddafi supporter in "rebel" territory your right to possess any weapon, selective fire or other, would be limited by the local authorities. You might simply be executed for having such a weapon if someone were to accuse you of being a Qaddafi supporter. If you were a rebel supporter in Qaddafi controlled territory your fate could be the same for supporting the rebels. Doesn't sound much like the ideal painted when your affiliation could result in your execution just based on someone's accusation.
 
hso they usually do not go direct to the kill spot when someone is captured. Seems there are many there on both sides that like to inflict mucho paino before the final deed is done. Not nice.
 
I'm of the mind that what we need to do, is take a page out of the book the writers of "Fido" used.

If you see the movie, the kids are taught from the beginning that firearms are our friends. It's the kind of world I dream of living in some day. So what if legions of the walking dead want to consume the flesh of the living. Bring on real freedom, with responsibility.
 
I see Sky hasn't drank the koolaid yet. Gaddafi has done a lot of good with that contry. He's not perfect but he's not deserving of a NATO invasion.

General Wesley Clark said back in 2007 that we would invade Libya, Afghanistan and Iraq. Next will be Syria and then Iran.
 
hahahaha I did not want everyone to think I was just another pretty face.

From our side of the pond he was a total dirt bag.... Anyone remember the Pan Am flight with 250+ Americans blown up over Scotland? I feel it reasonable to lay the blame on him financing the who thing? Just my opinion.

To many of his own people he was much better than what came before.
 
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As far as I can tell, Nobody deserves a full on invasion. Unless we can get together a good block party in my neighborhood. Then that would be okay.
 
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